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I've been playing with Templot for a few days now, and am having great fun, thanks Martin!
However, being very familiar with electronics PCB layout s/w, I'm perhaps coming at this from a slightly different angle from those more familiar with the more engineering packages such as Autocad, and in a way, I suspect such PCB design packages have more similarities with the way we work than the engineering type do, and perhaps some of the features would be useful in track layout.
Some of these might be:
1) Ability to put precisely located pegs, (with editable alignment indication) on the background, to locate entry/exit points or tie in to existing track.
2) Linked track sections, so, say if you edit the first curve in a long length of track, the successive stages stay locked to it and move as one, (it would also be really cool if you could lock the end point as well, and the curves and lengths auto updated, but I suspect that would be a lot of programming!), rather than then having to rejoin everything afterwards, and find out it still wasn't quite right.
3) Autorouting. Click on a start peg, an end peg, and the s/w routes the track according to your preset rules on spacing, clearances, minimum radius, etc.
4) Simplified processes. For instance, something like transition curves requires lots of button presses and options. How about a wizard or dragable box that lets you set the start point and end point of a transition curve then does the rest automatically. If it's not quite to your liking you can then edit it manually, but I suspect most would be happy with a default setting.
These are just a few ideas, I have many more! ;) ), and I appreciate they probably would be for V3.0/4.0, rather than the next update, but it would be interesting to see if these ideas make sense to other people, or possibly provide a discussion point for what others would find useful in the long term.
cheers
al
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Welcome to Templot Club and many thanks for your feedback.
1) Ability to put precisely located pegs, (with editable alignment indication) on the background, to locate entry/exit points or tie in to existing track.
You can do that now, using dummy templates. Create a short bit of straight plain track, say 50mm long. Set the notch at the required position and angle. Then peg on the dummy template and store it on the background. Repeat for as many such locations as you wish. You can later align templates to these dummy templates using the F7 snapping function, or using the notch and peg functions in the usual way. Delete the dummy templates when they are no longer needed. If necessary they can be shifted or rotated as required. Or extend them to become actual templates in the track plan -- it's all very flexible.
2) Linked track sections, so, say if you edit the first curve in a long length of track, the successive stages stay locked to it and move as one
You can do that now. It's called notch-linking.
I've made a couple of quick Jing videos showing notch-linking in use. Thanks to Bruce Fletcher for the original track plan. Allow a few seconds for them to fully load:
For more information about notch-linking see: notch-linking . Move the mouse slowly -- as you can see it takes a second or two for Templot to recalculate the linked group and move it.
3) Autorouting. Click on a start peg, an end peg, and the s/w routes the track according to your preset rules on spacing, clearances, minimum radius, etc.
That's an awful lot of complex programming -- and there's no likelihood that the result would be prototypical, which is the primary design consideration in Templot. It's not possible to link anything to anything, and always create a path which can be safely traversed by a moving vehicle. At present we have the "make transition" function which creates a linking clothoidal template between two existing ones if the conditions are suitable.
4) Simplified processes. For instance, something like transition curves requires lots of button presses and options. How about a wizard or dragable box that lets you set the start point and end point of a transition curve then does the rest automatically. If it's not quite to your liking you can then edit it manually, but I suspect most would be happy with a default setting.
You have rather lost me there. At present, if you set a transition curve Templot sets the initial default values based on the current dimensions of the control template. What would you like to have different? You can drag the start and end positions of a transition curve using the mouse actions in the usual way, and there are two options for how that works -- normal (fixed radii), or roll-out mode.
Thanks again for your comments.
regards,
Martin.
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Rats. Just posted a long involved reply, hit the preview to see if the quotes had worked, hit back to correct some punctuation, and found the reply window had reset to blank. Annoying.
Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
Al Crooks wrote: Rats. Just posted a long involved reply, hit the preview to see if the quotes had worked, hit back to correct some punctuation, and found the reply window had reset to blank. Annoying.Hi Al,
After clicking Preview, just scroll down the page to continue editing. The previous text may take a few seconds to reappear in the editor.
After clicking Back in your browser by mistake, you could have clicked Forward to get back to the preview and the editor. Even if the editor is then blank, you can copy and paste from the displayed preview text.
regards,
Martin.
Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
Martin Wynne wroteAfter clicking Preview, just scroll down the page to continue editing. The previous text may take a few seconds to reappear in the editor.
After clicking Back in your browser by mistake, you could have clicked Forward to get back to the preview and the editor. Even if the editor is then blank, you can copy and paste from the displayed preview text. Yup, user side ID 10 T error logged.
Will try again once I've finished laying this vee...
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Firstly, apologies if any of these questions have obvious answers, I'm on the Mac at the moment, as the PC PSU seems to have given up, so I can't open Templot to check things. luckily I'd already printed off what I need for now.
...You can do that now, using dummy templates...
That crossed my mind, but I was unsure if you could use numeric input to position the peg exactly where you want it.
...You can do that now. It's called notch-linking...
So you can! I'd completely missed that in the help. Could I add a gentle request for stuff like this to be in a written manual. I know it's a little contentious, but we all learn in different ways, and to me, having something in written form that I can read in the bath or wherever works a lot better than online help, which is good for specific issues, but just doesn't give you an overview of the whole thing.
As regarding notch-linking is it possible to set it up as a default behaviour during editing? What do others think?
...and there's no likelihood that the result would be prototypical, which is the primary design consideration in Templot. It's not possible to link anything to anything, and always create a path which can be safely traversed by a moving vehicle...
Considering the amount of options and controls I can set in my PCB layout s/w for track routing I suspect it certainly is possible, but as you say it would be a lot of work for something that may be of use to very few. It is very useful in PCB layout, but then again track density is usually much higher then in a prototypical model railway!
...At present, if you set a transition curve Templot sets the initial default values based on the current dimensions of the control template. What would you like to have different?
Right assume you have a straight piece of track, and a curve. You would click on a "Make Transition Curve" button, then click on the start point and then the end point of the transition, or drag a box over the area required and the s/w would calculate a suitable curve. Does that make more sense?
Once again, thanks for a great program, cheers,
al
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Hi Al, That crossed my mind, but I was unsure if you could use numeric input to position the peg exactly where you want it.Each template has its own peg. You can position the peg anywhere within it -- geometry > peg positions > set any peg position... menu item.
However, there is seldom any need to do that -- the range of pre-set peg positions, and the CTRL-F8 mouse action to move the peg along the centre-line or a rail edge, usually provide for any likely requirement.
There is only one notch. You can set its grid position and angle by numeric input -- geometry > notch > set notch position and angle... menu item. Doing that repeatedly and pegging a dummy template onto it in each position provides the fixed markers which you requested.
I fear from your questions that you are approaching Templot with a CAD mindset. As many have found that will lead to a lot of grief -- Templot is neither CAD nor a drawing package.
For the best way of using Templot to create track plan, please watch again the starter video at:
Could I add a gentle request for stuff like this to be in a written manual. I know it's a little contentious, but we all learn in different ways, and to me, having something in written form that I can read in the bath or wherever works a lot better than online help, which is good for specific issues, but just doesn't give you an overview of the whole thing. I'm sorry, but as stated on the web site a printed manual isn't part of the product -- and isn't likely to be any time soon. That's because:
a) I just don't have the resources to write it at present. To make proper sense it needs to incorporate a handbook on prototype railway track. Months and months of work.
b) Within 5 minutes of printing it, all 1000 copies will be in the recycling bin. Templot is still on version zero at present (after 30 years!) and is being frequently upgraded. If I live long enough I will write a printed manual when we get to a stable version 5.
The web-based documentation allows for frequent updates, and is easily printed by the user if you want a paper version. Some of the tutorials are available in PDF format for easy printing.
As regarding notch-linking is it possible to set it up as a default behaviour during editing? What do others think? Sorry, you have lost me there. Default behaviour of what? While editing what?
Considering the amount of options and controls I can set in my PCB layout s/w for track routing I suspect it certainly is possible, but as you say it would be a lot of work for something that may be of use to very few. It is very useful in PCB layout, but then again track density is usually much higher then in a prototypical model railway! There's a novel idea -- a printed circuit board laid out in the style of a railway track plan. What's the design current through the Goods Shed?
Right assume you have a straight piece of track, and a curve. You would click on a "Make Transition Curve" button, then click on the start point and then the end point of the transition, or drag a box over the area required and the s/w would calculate a suitable curve. Does that make more sense?There is already a make transition function which does most of that. You can't choose a start and end point for it, because there is only one result which will fit mathematically. You can move them afterwards by mouse action, but that will modify the position of the curve centre. For more about the make transition function, see: make transition .
regards,
Martin.
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-- and there's no likelihood that the result would be prototypical, which is the primary design consideration in Templot. It's not possible to link anything to anything, and always create a path which can be safely traversed by a moving vehicle. At present we have the "make transition" function which creates a linking clothoidal template between two existing ones if the conditions are suitable.
