Templot Club Archive 2007-2020                             

topic: 1118Paste?
author remove search highlighting
 
posted: 4 May 2010 16:56

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Dear all,

A user writes:
It is a while since I last used Templot but I seem to recall that is was not having the standard cut and paste keystrokes like Ctrl+C, Ctrl+X etc that I missed.
From this topic on RMweb: rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/topic/14534-freeware-track-planning-software/page__view__findpost__p__133798

I have several times said that I would try to make Templot more Windows-like -- if those complaining that it isn't, would be specific about which functions they mean.

So I would like to respond to this suggestion if possible. The problem is of course that it is not at all clear what Cut, Copy and Paste functions would actually do in Templot. If it was, I would have implemented them already. :)

At present I'm minded to do this:

Copy = same as save group, but to a hidden temporary file.

Cut = ditto, then delete group.

Paste = same as add from file, from the hidden file and using the storage box option to form a new group, then pad view fit group.

The user can then use the mouse actions to shift and rotate the new group to a new position, or use the notch linking functions to position it.

A group can of course consist of a single template, or the entire track plan. Using a hidden file allows the copy to survive across sessions or multiple instances of Templot.

None of that does anything that can't be done now. Nor does it provide a function that would have much use -- you can just do duplicate group and/or delete group now.

The existing storage box "echo" functions provide much the same functionality, but are restricted to a single template (files > echo menu items). I'm willing to bet you have never used them! :) Notice that they already have the Ctrl-X, Ctrl-C, and Ctrl-V shortcuts on the storage box. But on the pad these shortcuts are already in use for other functions, so some reassignments of those would be necessary.

But at least the presence of Cut, Copy and Paste on the menu (which menu?) may reassure beginners.

Comments welcome.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 4 May 2010 17:04

from:

Raymond
 
Bexhill-on-sea - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
It ain't broke so don't fix it.

Regards

Raymond

posted: 4 May 2010 18:09

from:

Paul Boyd
 
Loughborough - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Hi Martin

I take it this user didn't say what he expected Ctrl-X etc to do either?  Taking copy/cut/paste in the Windows-compliant context, I can't imagine what it should do.  What is being copied or cut to be pasted elsewhere?

I'm not sure I follow your suggestion of what these functions could do in Templot, and I think that would lead to complaints instead that they don't do what they were expected to do. (Without, of course, explaining what was expected.)

I'm with Raymond - leave it alone!  I'd much rather have irregular diamonds :D Especially, please don't change existing keyboard shortcuts again!!

I'm afraid this doesn't help you to formulate a response though :(

Cheers

posted: 4 May 2010 19:27

from:

Peter Ayre
 
 

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Martin,

When I'm in Microsoft mode "Control C" and "Control V" are used quite a bit for copy and paste.

When I'm in Templot mode "Copy to control", use "F7" then "Control V" to store.
For group copy I use the lasso and then group copy function.

It is just what you get used to.

As others say, "if it ain't broke.......".

Just my thoughts.

Regards,
Peter



posted: 4 May 2010 20:03

from:

Alan Turner
 
Dudley - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Please please leave well alone.

Irregular diamonds - now that's what we want.

Alan

posted: 4 May 2010 21:39

from:

John Preston
 
Lethbridge - Canada

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Hello to Martin and other responders,

Unless the original request visualizes two additional icons alongside those already under the main command bar to replicate the "main > copy to the control" and "main > store & background" I cannot understand the request.

I agree with Paul, Peter and Alan that we would much rather see additional programming for items such as irregular diamonds etc.

I much appreciate your pulling back from trying to respond to all help requests as I believe there are many out here who can answer most queries quite adequately.

Regards to all.

John
Attachment: attach_794_1118_ICONS.jpg 504

posted: 4 May 2010 22:37

from:

Paul Whitaker
 
London - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Another vote here for generally leaving well alone the things that aren't broken, and work on the stuff that we do need (and another vote for irregular diamonds :thumb: ).

I'd certainly find it annoying for Ctrl-X to stop being 'invert handing' and Ctrl-V being 'store & background'. I haven't really used the calculator that Ctrl-C brings up - maybe because I hadn't realised it was there, and perhaps others do use it, so I wouldn't presume to suggest that this key could be reassigned either.

However...

It has struck me a few times that it would be useful (to me) if there were keyboard shortcuts available for the 'copy to the control' and 'delete to the control' functions that appear on the context menu when you left-click a background template - these would appear (at least to me) to be sensible candidates for copy (Ctrl-C) and cut (Ctrl-X) for people wanting more 'Windows' application-like behaviour.
Ctrl-V (paste) remaining as 'store & background' would also probably then appear consistent to those people, as it 'pastes' the control template onto the background.

Of course, this would mean that you have the keyboard shortcuts doing different things, depending on the current context - but then Ctrl-C/Ctrl-X/Ctrl-V already behave as copy/cut/paste in the information panel, the jotter, and fields in dialog boxes...

Maybe something to add right to the bottom of your very long list of things to do Martin :)

Paul



posted: 5 May 2010 15:54

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Paul Whitaker wrote:
It has struck me a few times that it would be useful (to me) if there were keyboard shortcuts available for the 'copy to the control' and 'delete to the control' functions that appear on the context menu when you left-click a background template
Hi Paul,

Keyboard shortcuts are available for most of the items on that menu via the Windows "accelerator keys" (the underlined letters in menu items) in version 082d and later (sorry, not in 074b).

For example, for copy to the control you can simply press the C key on the keyboard after clicking the background template:

2_051033_260000000.png2_051033_260000000.png

This method is very fast, because the shortcut is a single key which you can press left-handed -- click-dab. :)

(You may have your copy of Windows configured not to show the underlines until you press the ALT key.)

The underlines aren't always easy to spot. It may be an advantage to make the accelerator keys more prominent, like this perhaps -- comments welcome:

2_051043_260000000.png2_051043_260000000.png 

Note that menu accelerator keys are a bog-standard feature of Windows. :)

Thanks for all other the comments on this topic. I've got the message. :) 

regards,

Martin.

posted: 5 May 2010 17:10

from:

Paul Whitaker
 
London - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Keyboard shortcuts are available for most of the items on that menu via the Windows "accelerator keys" (the underlined letters in menu items) in version 082d and later (sorry, not in 074b).

Excellent :thumb:

(You may have your copy of Windows configured not to show the underlines until you press the ALT key.)

Yes, thanks to Microsoft - apparently the default setting since Windows 2000 (I'm using XP). Guess that's why I missed them (and pressing ALT kills pop-up menus :()

The underlines aren't always easy to spot. It may be an advantage to make the accelerator keys more prominent, like this perhaps -- comments welcome:

It looks a bit weird (to me) with them on the left of the menu instead of the right, where these things usually seem to appear - but I guess they won't fit there for the items that open sub-menus.

Maybe you could just ignore the Windows settings and display the underlines anyway? A bit rude perhaps, but then other applications seem to do it
e.g. Firefox 3.6, Microsoft Outlook 2007 (though not some other bits of Office - so even MS seem confused by this...)

It would at least be worth noting this point about accelerator keys in the pages about keyboard shortcuts.

Thanks,

Paul

posted: 5 May 2010 17:53

from:

Jim Guthrie
 
United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
I've been using Templot mainly on Vista and Win7 for the last year or so and had noticed that I had no underlines on menus - I had actually made a mental note to ask if we could have underlines back thinking that they might have gone with 0.91C. :D

So I've just dug around on Windows 7 and found the place to change the setting to get the underlines back.  It's not too obvious but you go to Control Panel,  then select "Ease of Access",  then under "Ease of Access Centre" select "Change How Your Keyboard Works",  then tick the box at the bottom of the page next to "Underline keyboard shortcuts and access keys".

I wonder why the default is now to switch the underlines off when that is (was?) a basic requirement for Windows programming.

Jim.

posted: 5 May 2010 18:05

from:

Paul Boyd
 
Loughborough - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Jim Guthrie wrote:
So I've just dug around on Windows 7 and found the place to change the setting to get the underlines back. It's not too obvious but you go to Control Panel, then select "Ease of Access", then under "Ease of Access Centre" select "Change How Your Keyboard Works", then tick the box at the bottom of the page next to "Underline keyboard shortcuts and access keys".
"Ease of Access".  Rather ironic really, considering the above :D

posted: 5 May 2010 18:37

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Paul Whitaker wrote:
Yes, thanks to Microsoft - apparently the default setting since Windows 2000 (I'm using XP). Guess that's why I missed them
Hi Paul,

I'm a bit alarmed to know that, because the accelerator keys are essential in the shove timbers dialog to press the buttons repeatedly. Otherwise shoving timbers becomes tedious beyond belief if the buttons have to be repeatedly clicked with the mouse.

It's odd, because I'm using XP on several computers, and they all show the underlines without ALT. I don't remember changing the setting.

It looks a bit weird (to me) with them on the left of the menu instead of the right, where these things usually seem to appear - but I guess they won't fit there for the items that open sub-menus.

Maybe you could just ignore the Windows settings and display the underlines anyway? A bit rude perhaps, but then other applications seem to do it

I put them on the left because that is the only simple way to get them in a neat column.

The proper solution is to set the menu to OwnerDraw. That ignores the Windows settings and allows me to make custom menus with fonts, colours, icons, etc. But it's a lot of programming work and out of the question for the entire menu structure. I may perhaps consider doing it for just this menu though. The accelerator key could then be in bold colour in a box or some such, rather than an underline.

For the shove timbers dialog, I will detect the keys separately instead of relying on the accelerator keys on the buttons. Thanks for letting me know that you are not seeing them.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 5 May 2010 23:18

from:

Paul Whitaker
 
London - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Jim Guthrie wrote:
I wonder why the default is now to switch the underlines off when that is (was?) a basic requirement for Windows programming.

Apparently Microsoft consider the vast majority of their users are computer illiterate luddites who can't cope with them - see "Why does Windows hide keyboard accelerators and focus rectangles by default?"

Martin wrote:
It's odd, because I'm using XP on several computers, and they all show the underlines without ALT. I don't remember changing the setting.

Underlines were off on one Vista and three XP computers that I've looked at today, so it would certainly seem to be the default in those installs as I know I haven't changed it on at least a couple of them.

I will be doing now though...

For the shove timbers dialog, I will detect the keys separately instead of relying on the accelerator keys on the buttons. Thanks for letting me know that you are not seeing them.

The accelerator keys seem to work whether the underlines show or not - I'd worked out and have been using most of the ones in the shove timbers dialog without seeing the underlines - it just hadn't crossed my mind that they would be present on the background template pop-up menu...

Paul


posted: 19 Sep 2019 03:31

from:

Peter Ross
 
Christchurch - New Zealand

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
You asked what purpose copy and paste would serve? Well it would be great for me at the moment.

I drew my layout in two separate parts and would now like to put them on the same page, but not connected (yet). The idea being to work out how they will be connected.


posted: 19 Sep 2019 11:29

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Peter Ross wrote:
You asked what purpose copy and paste would serve? Well it would be great for me at the moment.

I drew my layout in two separate parts and would now like to put them on the same page, but not connected (yet). The idea being to work out how they will be connected.
Hi Peter,

Welcome to Templot Club. Good to hear from you -- your first post after joining 7 years ago. :)

Assuming they are in two separate .box files, load the first one and then use the add file function to add the second one:

2_190623_450000000.png2_190623_450000000.png

cheers,

Martin.

posted: 19 Sep 2019 22:17

from:

Peter Ross
 
Christchurch - New Zealand

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Thanks Martin
Still working on the same layout plan but in a new location. I knew there would be a way.
Regards
Peter



about Templot Club

Templot Companion - User Guide - A-Z Index Templot Explained for beginners Please click: important information for new members and first-time visitors.
indexing link for search engines

back to top of page


Please read this important note about copyright: Unless stated otherwise, all the files submitted to this web site are copyright and the property of the respective contributor. You are welcome to use them for your own personal non-commercial purposes, and in your messages on this web site. If you want to publish any of this material elsewhere or use it commercially, you must first obtain the owner's permission to do so.
The small print: All material submitted to this web site is the responsibility of the respective contributor. By submitting material to this web site you acknowledge that you accept full responsibility for the material submitted. The owner of this web site is not responsible for any content displayed here other than his own contributions. The owner of this web site may edit, modify or remove any content at any time without giving notice or reason. Problems with this web site? Contact webmaster@templot.com.   This web site uses cookies: click for information.  
© 2020  

Powered by UltraBB - © 2009 Data 1 Systems