Templot Club Archive 2007-2020                             

topic: 1296digital trends -- and Templot?
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posted: 27 Nov 2010 10:16

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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15 years ago many homes had an IBM-pattern Business Computer, desperately pretending to be a domestic appliance but in truth serving little recreational purpose and requiring a tame teenage geek to do anything remotely technical, such as connecting to the internet or printing a photograph.

But it was an ideal gadget on which to plan a model railway, and I developed Templot for it. :)

Go into PC World today and where are the desktop computers? All but gone. Instead there is a dazzling display of sleek must-have mobile devices, itouch raspberry padpod netphones with enough computing power in the palm of your hand to run a nuclear power station. It's almost impossible to come out without one. Perfect if you want to tweeter to your friends from the back of the bus, or get the closing prices on the London Metal Exchange while sitting on the train home.

But run Templot?

Several people have told me that Templot is now the only thing they use their desktop computer for. Which is fine until it finally dies. Then what? Should I be planning to spend most of my spare time for the next 10 years developing Templot, if at the end of that time no-one has the means to run it?

Where do you think you will be running Templot in 10 years time? Will it be necessary to chase the family off the big media screen in the front room -- because despite a house full of gadgetry there is nowhere else to run it? Or will it be possible to plug one of those digital photo frames into the kitchen toaster and run Templot on there? :)

Answers on a postcard -- if you've still got one.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 27 Nov 2010 11:07

from:

Jonathan Wells
 
 

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I use a laptop - in fact my last 2 computers have been laptops rather than desktops. I can't see anyone using an iPod or whatever to run Templot.

posted: 27 Nov 2010 11:12

from:

rodney_hills
 
United Kingdom

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Martin,

Do I detect a tiny bit of doom and gloom here?

Surely a domestic LAPTOP will do the job, the same one as many folks wil have for emails, web browsing, photo collection, etc, etc. If a large screen is desired a big monitor (or TV set with PC interface) can simply plug in to Windows' built-in multi-screen support which I understand Templot can already exploit? The same issue applies to a raft of MR and other hobby applications. Indeed Microsoft, through the free Visual Studio Express application development environment and compilers for assorted languages, is actively encouraging hobbyists to 'roll their own'. The general-purpose computer lives on, in a age of 'appliances'.

Regards, Rodney Hills
Last edited on 27 Nov 2010 11:14 by rodney_hills
posted: 27 Nov 2010 11:16

from:

BruceNordstrand
 
Riverstone, NSW - Australia

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Call me old at 49 but I refuse to buy into this super-duper mobile, ipod, ipad, iwhatever, tweet, faceplant, myspaceed-out circus, PC's will always be around in one form or another in my household, whether it be a desktop or a laptop. I feel you will be safe Martin just developing Templot for the PC, heck, my Dad has a whole Windows machine just to run an old copy of Quicken because he hates the newer versions, he runs a Mac for day-to-day.

posted: 27 Nov 2010 11:33

from:

Paul Boyd
 
Loughborough - United Kingdom

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10 years is not a long time, and I personally can't see me not still using a desktop computer. I do have a laptop as well, but who wants to do techy stuff on one little screen? I'm a few years younger than Bruce, but I also can't get into all this iwaffle malarkey. It really does seem to be technology just for the sake of it, and from what I've seen it doesn't seem that reliable. It also seems strange, in this age of reducing waste, to make so many disposable gadgets that are made redundant within 12 months by the next super-duper must-have widget. We're already going to have a massive mountain of unusable FM radios in a few years time when the signals are switched off, to add to the analogue TV mountain already forming.

Oh, despite what Windows 7 tells me, Quicken 2002 runs fine!! I also hate the newer versions, not least because they've forgotten that the UK exists :(

posted: 27 Nov 2010 11:50

from:

Jim Guthrie
 
United Kingdom

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Martin,

Like the other responses,  I can't see how you can expect to run a lot of serious applications on a small screen appliance like an IPhone or whatever.    I have been using a Netbook PC for the past few months on 1080 x 600 resolution and although it works well for email,  basic Internet surfing and straightforward word processing,  the small screen does limit your actions if you want to move onto more sophisticated programming like CAD,  spreadsheets, etc.,  where you do need a large screen,  or multiple screens,  with resolutions that allow you to read text and see drawing detail over a large area.   My small netbook screen does require a lot of scrolling to view a simple spreadsheet and I haven't tried any CAD program as yet since I think it would be a waste of time.   I know that we used to do everything on a 640 x 480 screen some years ago but I do remember running Autosketch on such a screen,  and it wasn't easy. :D

What I possibly see in the future is the small portable computer (in whatever guise) which allows the owner to have easy portability for all the functions that the mobile generation want - like email,  facebook,  Net surfing,  tweeting, etc.,  but can be docked at home to a base which hooks you up to a large screen and,  possibly,  large capacity disk drives.  We have had that facility for some years now with laptops and netbooks, but the advances in chip technology might let a much smaller Iphone size appliance have the processor power to run the high end applications at home so that people only need to have one computer to do all their tasks.

Jim.
Last edited on 27 Nov 2010 11:50 by Jim Guthrie
posted: 27 Nov 2010 12:05

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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rodney_hills wrote:
Surely a domestic LAPTOP will do the job, the same one as many folks will have for emails, web browsing, photo collection, etc, etc.
Hi Rodney,

But will they? Laptops are getting smaller and lighter, with the latest solid-state netbook versions. They must surely merge eventually with the mobile ithings. Already you can do "emails, web browsing, photo collection, etc." on such things and never need a mainstream computer.

I don't doubt that the typical Windows PC computer, laptop or desktop, will still be everywhere in the working environment, but will there be one in every home? What will it be used for if you can do everything on your mobile?

Templot is a hobby application, not for business. There's no future for it if it can't be used at home.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 27 Nov 2010 12:15

from:

BruceNordstrand
 
Riverstone, NSW - Australia

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Martin

I firmly believe that what is happening now is another trend and will die out like every other trend has. I also fell that those that need computers, as such, will have them for doing things other than emails, tweeting etc and as such will have a place for applications like Templot.

I get the distinct feeling that you are tired of developing Templot after 15 odd years and are looking for an excuse to stop, at least that are the signals that I am getting from your negative posts, I mean the last line of your response just reeks of "I want to get out of this...."

posted: 27 Nov 2010 12:30

from:

Judi R
 
Sutton-on-Sea - United Kingdom

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Martin,

Nil Desperandum Carborundum!

You are probably right in that there will be an increasing number of iPhings and other highly mobile devices but I'm sure that the desktop and laptop-with-large-screen will not disappear.

Don't confuse the marketing hype about entertainment centres and convergence and all that stuff with serious users of computers. We will be here for a long time yet!

Judi

posted: 27 Nov 2010 12:34

from:

rodney_hills
 
United Kingdom

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Martin wrote:
>Templot is a hobby application, not for business. There's no future for it if it can't be used at home.

It's more like just ONE tool for a hobbyist, who probably has all sort of other tools that fit into the same handle, viz a general-purpose Win personal computer. So the hobbyist in the family has to budget a couple of hundred quid spread over say 5 years to buy a commodity PC that'll run any and all tools in his/her software app toolkit? Surely affordable to many? If it's a laptop, he/she can sit in an armchair, in the bosom of the family, tapping away at Templot. Domestic bliss! Like the internet, the genie is out of the bottle with the "PC = powerful cheap general purpose computer for anyone that wants one". That's lots of people, so the market will supply such things.

Regards, Rodney Hills

posted: 27 Nov 2010 12:36

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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BruceNordstrand wrote:
I get the distinct feeling that you are tired of developing Templot after 15 odd years and are looking for an excuse to stop, at least that are the signals that I am getting from your negative posts, I mean the last line of your response just reeks of "I want to get out of this...."
Hi Bruce,

Not true at all. I still have masses of ideas for Templot, things I want to try, things I know don't work as well as they could, ideas to make Templot more user-friendly. Things I've promised and still haven't delivered. After all, Templot is still only on version zero. :)

But I also know how much of my time developing them could take, and how difficult it is to keep a 62-year-old brain on top of all the changes in computing. And I'm really fearful that the time could turn out to be wasted, if at the end of the day Templot has become a white elephant that only a handful of modellers still have the means to run.

p.s. it's actually 30 years since Templot started on a programmable calculator. :)

regards,

Martin.

posted: 27 Nov 2010 13:03

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Jim Guthrie wrote:
We have had that facility for some years now with laptops and netbooks, but the advances in chip technology might let a much smaller Iphone size appliance have the processor power to run the high end applications at home so that people only need to have one computer to do all their tasks.
Hi Jim,

But what are these "high-end applications" that a typical modeller needs to run at home? Most of the people I know leave such applications at work. Their home computer is rarely used for anything more than emails, eBay, web shopping, watching BBC iPlayer, etc., all of which can be done on an ithing. Even printing photographs is now done on a stand-alone printer that takes the camera card directly.

There will still be a conventional computer in every home, driving the main media/tv display. But getting on it for long enough to do any serious Templotting or other model activity could be easier said than done. :)

regards,

Martin.

posted: 27 Nov 2010 13:06

from:

JFS
 
United Kingdom

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I also really can't buy Martin's doom and gloom scenario here. Templot is BY NO MEANS the only application in the whole wide techno world which runs best on a decent sized screen sat on a desk in the home environment.
Besides, I have just bought a decent desktop, with a 2048 x 1152 display 8GB of RAM, 4 core processor, 2TB of disc space - it was dirt cheap and the flat screen display takes up no space at all. Why would people sit at home with some tiny hand held device when they can sit in a comfy chair using something just a bit more powerful and easier on the eyes?
I agree with others that the reason why PC World is full of these things is because they are today's "must-have" - every one buying them ALREADY HAS a desktop which, they will not be throwing out anytime soon. Why do I say that? Because my son told me so, and he knows about these things. I don't think they are a "fad" - they are here to stay - but to run alongside, not instead of a "home based" device.

Keep up the good work Martin, you are amongst friends.

By the way - when will the next PUG be with us? We are all waiting...

Best Regards,

Howard

posted: 27 Nov 2010 13:25

from:

Paul Boyd
 
Loughborough - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin
But what are these "high-end applications" that a typical modeller needs to run at home? Most of the people I know leave such applications at work.
OK - maybe I'm not a typical modeller, but "high-end applications" I use for various modelling things, apart from Templot of course, are Adobe Photoshop CS and CorelDraw X3.  The MS Office suite also has uses - you just can't use Word or Excel on a tiny screen, and anyway, how do you print from these tiny iWaffles?  If these applications were at work, I wouldn't be able to use them for home stuff.  An exception to that is Altium Designer, which I can use at home whilst I'm employed by my current employer - limited use for modelling though :?  I'd also like to see one of these tiny devices handle video capture and editing.

Therefore, people like me will always need some kind of reasonably powerful computer, even if it is a laptop plugged into a big monitor or two.

Cheer up :D

posted: 27 Nov 2010 13:46

from:

Jim Guthrie
 
United Kingdom

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Martin Wynne wrote:
Jim Guthrie wrote:
We have had that facility for some years now with laptops and netbooks, but the advances in chip technology might let a much smaller Iphone size appliance have the processor power to run the high end applications at home so that people only need to have one computer to do all their tasks.
Hi Jim,

But what are these "high-end applications" that a typical modeller needs to run at home? Most of the people I know leave such applications at work.
Martin,

Apart from the applications like those which Paul has suggested,  have you ever looked at the requirements for the average PC game these days?   My local Game store will only sell some games if you state that you have the RAM/processor/video card suitable to run the games.  Our requirements for high end CAD/pictures processing/etc., applications pall into insignificance with respect to those for some modern games.    I believe that one of the main causes for the development of faster processing is the games market - particularly with video cards,  some of which can cost more than a complete lower spec PC setup. :D

Jim.
Last edited on 27 Nov 2010 13:47 by Jim Guthrie
posted: 27 Nov 2010 14:21

from:

Ian Allen
 
Milton Keynes - United Kingdom

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Martin,

Having had time to consider the other replies, no-one has highlighted that the vast majority of the multitude of hand-held devices are used for social networking and web browsing. I cannot see how anyone would want to use them for serious work over a laptop or PC. A change will come whereby such devices probably will merge into something like an iPad, but the ideal would be something along the lines of a media interface akin to that envisaged in Minority Report and other sci-fi films. In fact, such technology already exists. Screens will be replaced with projection walls and everything may well dock to a home base unit.
The portable device culture is just that, and as pointed out, wasteful. They are a marketing departments dream with new models superseding those less than 6 months old, just like the mobile phone. It is all part of the want, want, want society we live in and it is that which needs to change.
Personally I see the biggest concern over the next 10 years is a reduction in the number of people coming to the hobby, mainly because many no longer have any skills or interests relevant to it.

posted: 27 Nov 2010 15:12

from:

Dasatcopthorne
 
 

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I have a mobile.
I have a desktop PC
I have a laptop.

I will be keeping my 19" screen with my PC thank you world, because that's what you need for proper computing like office work, editing photos, and planning on Templot etc., etc.

How can anyone plan a layout or templates on a handheld screen?

Keep up the work on the current theme. PC/Laptop. Please!

Dave

posted: 27 Nov 2010 15:21

from:

NeilD
 
 

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Martin,

I think that as long as Microshaft continue backwards compatible support there won't be a problem.

I used to keep an old PC networked in the loft, just to run Templot on (and to play some background music  :) ) however, I dispensed with that some time ago - many Templot users would probably be happy with a similar solution as they are typically "Railway geeks", not Techie ones (I tentatively claim to be both.)

I now run Templot on a Mac with no problems, apart from some of the idiosyncrasies of a Mac keyboard.

The only alternative that I could possibly see for running Templot in the foreseeable future would be to port it to Linux, since open-source software is not going to go away and I don't see the Linux development community deserting their long time user and application base. This would be a major piece of work and I'm not suggesting it as a serious or particularly viable proposition

(I know it's a "time-management" issue balancing requests for support against developing an easy to understand set of help/user manual but you often seem to be dragged backwards by facile requests for support, which a little bit of lateral thinking and attempts at self-help would solve and also educate the "User" more effectively than you doing it for them. I often marvel at the patience and speed of response that you provide to such requests. (I was previously Head of ICT for a large organisation and the term "Users" was often applied in a derogatory sense when our "Customers" stepped over the boundaries of common sense, abdicated attempts at self-help and fell back upon the patience and professionalism of our support service!))

For me, it would be a better investment of your time to continue developing functionality on the existing platform but prioritise this against keeping documentation up to date and releasing the much anticipated and long awaited version 1.0.

Regards,

Neil

posted: 27 Nov 2010 15:22

from:

Paul Boyd
 
Loughborough - United Kingdom

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Dave
Personally I see the biggest concern over the next 10 years is a reduction in the number of people coming to the hobby, mainly because many no longer have any skills or interests relevant to it.
I don't know if you went to the Warley show, but I was really saddened to see one stand that was basically plugging computer games.  It was manned by a bunch of lads hiding behind monitors, with computer generated trains projected behind them, well, behind one of them.  The others just had Windows stuff being faffed about with.  I really, sincerely hope that that isn't the future of "railway modelling".

posted: 27 Nov 2010 16:18

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Ian Allen wrote:
no-one has highlighted that the vast majority of the multitude of hand-held devices are used for social networking and web browsing. I cannot see how anyone would want to use them for serious work over a laptop or PC.
Hi Ian,

My point is that I don't see what is this "serious work" that the vast majority of people do on their computer at home? It is all left behind at their place of work, and the home computer is used only for emails, web, etc. When it finally dies, as it surely will, there won't be any great need to get a new one if everything they were doing on it can now be done on their mobile device or tv screen instead.

Which means that eventually there won't be a PC as we know it in every home in the land. Many new modellers who might like to try Templot won't be able to do so for lack of any suitable hardware on which to run it. While Templot itself might fall within a hobby budget, an entire computer for no other purpose probably wouldn't. Being able to run Templot is hardly the most pressing call on the typical family funds.

Or maybe not? A new application may appear -- every man and his dog may want to create 3D animations or run flight simulators. Or a refurbished Windows 95 computer may become the trendy must-have item of furniture. The local newspaper, if it still exists, may run a competition to see which pub team can evaluate Pi to the greatest number of places before closing time. :)

The best hope is that a decent flat-screen monitor, keyboard and mouse set will become cheap enough to fall within hobby prices (maybe it already has?), and can be plugged into the latest mobile ithing. Assuming it's still big enough to have room for the sockets.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 27 Nov 2010 16:21

from:

allanferguson
 
Fife - United Kingdom

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I was surprised to be approached at a recent exhibition by a chap who wanted to know where he could find detail drawings of certain wagons. When I talked to him about construction methods he revealed that he wanted to make computer models of the wagons to run in his virtual trains on his virtual railway. He said there were a number of people involved in this, to me, unknown branch of the hobby. He was not just a computer geek, but, in his own way, a serious and competent railway modeller. I don't thing this sort of thing would ever be mainstream, but it does indicate the range which this hobby can encompass. I don't think that anyone who takes their modelling seriously enough to go to these sort of lengths, or to the lengths of designing their own track would ever be put off by the need to have the use of a decent PC What might worry me would be; if, God forbid, anything should happen to you, Martin, how would we ever get a new lock code for when we buy a new computer?

Allan F

posted: 27 Nov 2010 16:30

from:

Nigel Brown
 
 

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Martin

Think you've had your answers. There's a load of serious software which many people run and will want to run in their homes; the fact that this may not be true of many or maybe most homes is irrelevant.

I spend a lot of time on my PC, mainly digital photography associated with the Geograph web project, O.S. mapping related to the same, and Templot, plus of course web browsing and email. I need a quality, comfortable environment, with largish high quality screen, good speed, and so on. I also have a laptop, but used only as backup, as the PC resources are better all round. I've thought about a netbook for carrying O.S. maps around, and/or something for mobile net access, but as yet the need isn't strong enough.

There's another factor with Templot. Railway modelling may face competition, but the time has never been better for those interested in more than just playing trains; just look at the components and kits available. Seems to me that so long as this side of the hobby remains healthy there will be a ready market for Templot.

Cheers
Nigel

posted: 27 Nov 2010 16:35

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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allanferguson wrote:
What might worry me would be; if, God forbid, anything should happen to you, Martin, how would we ever get a new lock code for when we buy a new computer?
Hi Allan,

Don't worry, contingency arrangements for such an event have been in place for many years. I'm hoping they won't actually be needed just yet. :)

Martin.

posted: 27 Nov 2010 16:38

from:

Graham Idle
 
Redhill, Surrey - United Kingdom

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Hi, when is iTemplot coming out. :D:cool:
Regards, Graham

posted: 27 Nov 2010 17:09

from:

Ian Allen
 
Milton Keynes - United Kingdom

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Martin Wynne wrote :
My point is that I don't see what is this "serious work" that the vast majority of people do on their computer at home? It is all left behind at their place of work, and the home computer is used only for emails, web, etc. When it finally dies, as it surely will, there won't be any great need to get a new one if everything they were doing on it can now be done on their mobile device or tv screen instead.
Martin,

For myself, it is photography work. There is no way a palmtop device can replace the two 21" flat screen monitors I use, the benefit of which I can spread Templot over both screens of course. I can also use one screen for software and the other for a photo for example when doing some work. My eyes suffered enough over the 20 odd years sat in TV studios staring at monitors, without having to resort to a small screen, even to reply to this thread for example.

I also wouldn't want to write articles, course assignments or proposals on one, nor work through designing wiring diagrams on one either.

Call me old fashioned :D  but they are not for me. A decent laptop, like this one, or my tower PC is what I want. By the same token I don't use a small camera, it is big, so it fits in my hands with all controls easily accessible. It is the ergonomics that work, like a full size keyboard. I couldn't use a Blackberry keypad, it's bad enough when sending a text on my Nokia...lol.

Regards

Ian

posted: 27 Nov 2010 21:25

from:

Phil O
 
Plymouth - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin

I for one won't be without a PC or a decent sized laptop, trying to use cad on one of those I thingies would do my head in, I have enough trouble trying to read text messages on a piddly little screen is bad enough, without trying to put lines 1/2 a mil or less on a drawing on those screens would be impossible, at least for me. Then there is a need to connect to a printer or plotter. At least with the PC and laptop I can listen to Planet Rock on a decent pair of speakers, use Templot, swop to Autocad, be able to get at info on the net and have instant access to emails coming in just by clicking the icons on the taskbar, do the i thingies do all this?

Cheers Phil

posted: 27 Nov 2010 21:34

from:

Tom
 
Vienna - Virginia USA

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Hi Martin,

As a new user yet a few years older than you, I understand what you are driving at in this thread. But I don't think you need worry about Templot users eventually not having machines to run it on - there are too many other things we need big screens and a good pointing device for. I have resisted the i-phone, though both sons have one - but I do have an i-Pad and its good for surfing Templot Club and reading tutorials though I wouldn't want to try using it to create a layout plan.

Actually, as you may remember, I first got Templot on my laptop and it worked fine, though its even better on my desktop. Even if I only had the laptop, with a 13 inch screen, its perfectly fine (though I'd appreciate losing the reminder to use big fonts). But connecting an external screen and a USB mouse would make it just like the desktop.

The main threat, I feel, is whether the following generations will value what we do. Or will railway modelling go the way of Meccano - another activity great for developing practical, problem solving skills but needing too much time and patience for most of today's youngsters.

Tom

posted: 27 Nov 2010 21:44

from:

David Yates
 
Walsall - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin,

As a near 64 year old, I have no intention whatsoever of joining the iPod or whatever brigade. My Desktop PC is ideal for all I need to run including Templot. You're doing a grand job. Don't get disillusioned. I'm firmly of the opinion that if it works don't mend it. By all means improve it, but the need for change for the sake of it isn't necessary.

Dave

posted: 28 Nov 2010 07:47

from:

Raymond
 
Bexhill-on-sea - United Kingdom

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It seems then that I am not alone. I have a mobile but never use the text thingy (keyboard is utterly useless)or the GPS because I can read a map. About the only other 'mobile' kit I am likely to buy will be an e-reader for holidays/travel. Everything else is done on my tower, which did not come from PC World (rip-off artists) but was built to my specification by specialists and did not cost the earth either.

Even for e-mail and surfing the web, a proper keyboard, mouse and large screen are, in my view essential.

So Martin, it seems we your audience do not agree with your doom laden message. Carry on the great work, it is much appreciated.

Regards

Raymond

posted: 28 Nov 2010 12:26

from:

Les Golledge
 
Chippenham - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin,

I use my desktop for CAD designing laser cut body kits for the Broad Gauge Society, Photoshop to delve as deeply as possible into photos especially Broad Gauge photos (amazing what can be seen), looking at old maps, family history research and more all of which are best done on a larger screen. So from my point of view desktops with tower case will be around for a long time.
Best wishes,

Les.

posted: 28 Nov 2010 14:14

from:

Bill_Lobb
 
Scarborough - United Kingdom

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Don't forget DCC users. At least some use PCs to control their layouts and to program decoders. There are plenty of reasons for railway modellers to use a PC, and until the portable thingies can replace all of these, I think PCs will still be around.
But perhaps the real question is commercial. Are people still buying new copies of Templot? If they are then there must be a demand, so keep on developing it.

posted: 28 Nov 2010 14:46

from:

GeoffB
 
 

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Hi All,
I have been following this thread and agree that the iphones and the like - well you can keep 'em!

I do use a mobile phone quite a lot - saves a lot of money over the land line as all the calls are free (well 800 mins a month, anyway - and if I'm using more than that then I'm spending too much time talking and not enough doing!!)texts I RARELY use if I sent 10 a month, that's it and only when I can't get hold of someone directly - and it is very handy for the 5meg camera on board - limited but as record shots absolutely fine.

PC wise, I upgraded to a decent power laptop last year with a 15.6" screen, which makes it handy when I need to wander elsewhere, but I have a wireless mouse and keyboard plugged in to one usb port and a 23" widescreen monitor (around £130-ish for a decent one that size) which is excellent for all cad/templot/photoshop, etc, for when I use it in my office/model room. Best of both worlds.

Regards,

GeoffB

posted: 28 Nov 2010 15:36

from:

Richard Spratt
 
Stockton-upon-Tees - United Kingdom

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I 10 years time? Not only will I be using Templot on my I-Pad, but I'll also be building the track on my I-Pad, and using my wife's I-Ron instead on a Soldering I-Ron to do it all in one go. Oh and I-ll use my I-Pad to scan the existing track or map or whatever.

Of course if you believe Mr Hornby on the Christmas DVD, we'll all be building virtual model railways. Can Templot become the hub of the virtual model railway planning software Martin?

posted: posted: 28 Nov 2010 16:46

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Richard Spratt wrote:
Can Templot become the hub of the virtual model railway planning software Martin?
Hi Richard,

Well you can already use 3D DXFs from Templot in 3rd PlanIt. :)

Here's some Templot track imported into 3rd PlanIt. With a bit of fiddling about with the DXF export you can get 3rd PlanIt trains to run along these tracks:

fremington_3d5.pngfremington_3d5.png

Here's a bit of screen capture video showing this track plan:

 pre_gallery/fremington_north.exe

The original topic is:

 topic 117

regards,

Martin.

28 Nov 2010 16:46

from:

BeamEnds
 
 

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I can see where you are coming from on this, but I think it may be a little early to declare the desk-top computer dead. While I agree that many computer users do little more than listen to music, watch video or update an uncaring world on Little Johnny's ability to use a potty, there are many, many people using desk-tops for more 'serious' applications - in my case music recording & mixing. Others are into video, animation, photo-processing, and even just good old game playing. And of course there are an awful lot of people out there still doing real programming - i.e the Open Source community.

For what it's worth, I believe the mobile device 'revolution' is still revolving, and users are being swept along on a wave of "'Ain't this neat" created by advertisers. When it all settles down, the desk-top will still be there (or at least the ability to run in 'desk-top' mode) simply because sometimes you just need the physical space.

The likes of the XBOX has demonstrated that people will buy more than one device if they need to.

posted: 28 Nov 2010 19:31

from:

renluethi
 
Dietlikon - Switzerland

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Hi Martin,
When I have finished the annual account and the annual survey for the inspectorate, I want to change my PC system. But not to some mobile things, I consider to change to Linux on a desktop PC. I am sick and tired of the MS business practices of stopping the support of a Windows version every few years. I hope to get going Templot on Linux.
 Regards
René.

posted: 29 Nov 2010 00:07

from:

BeamEnds
 
 

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I would like Linux too - I only run Windows for Templot (can't get it to work with Wine - my set up problem) - just sayin', not a priority!

posted: 29 Nov 2010 19:11

from:

renluethi
 
Dietlikon - Switzerland

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There is a compatibility list somewhere in the net, and according this list Templot 074 shoud work with Linux.

posted: 29 Nov 2010 19:58

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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renluethi wrote:
There is a compatibility list somewhere in the net, and according this list Templot 074 should work with Linux.
Everything you need to know, kindly compiled by Adrian Cherry:

  http://www.templot.com/info/templot_on_linux.htm

regards,

Martin.

posted: 29 Nov 2010 20:58

from:

BeamEnds
 
 

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renluethi wrote:
There is a compatibility list somewhere in the net, and according this list Templot 074 shoud work with Linux.
Yes, it should - and did once for a while. There's something up with my Linux installation that's upsetting Wine. It's not a re-install thing either, that would be too easy! When I really have to I'll sort it out....... :)
Last edited on 29 Nov 2010 20:59 by BeamEnds
posted: 29 Nov 2010 21:02

from:

BeamEnds
 
 

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Martin Wynne wrote:
renluethi wrote:
There is a compatibility list somewhere in the net, and according this list Templot 074 should work with Linux.
Everything you need to know, kindly compiled by Adrian Cherry:

  http://www.templot.com/info/templot_on_linux.htm

regards,

Martin.
Indeed, but a native version would be nice, so I can delete Windows once and for all.

posted: 29 Nov 2010 21:11

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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BeamEnds wrote:
Indeed, but a native version would be nice, so I can delete Windows once and for all.

There's no chance of a native version of Templot for anything other than Windows/Wine/CodeWeavers Crossover.

There's no point in pretending otherwise. Life is too short to start again. Sorry.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 29 Nov 2010 23:27

from:

BruceNordstrand
 
Riverstone, NSW - Australia

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Martin Wynne wrote:
BruceNordstrand wrote:
I get the distinct feeling that you are tired of developing Templot after 15 odd years and are looking for an excuse to stop, at least that are the signals that I am getting from your negative posts, I mean the last line of your response just reeks of "I want to get out of this...."
Hi Bruce,

Not true at all. I still have masses of ideas for Templot, things I want to try, things I know don't work as well as they could, ideas to make Templot more user-friendly. Things I've promised and still haven't delivered. After all, Templot is still only on version zero. :)

But I also know how much of my time developing them could take, and how difficult it is to keep a 62-year-old brain on top of all the changes in computing. And I'm really fearful that the time could turn out to be wasted, if at the end of the day Templot has become a white elephant that only a handful of modellers still have the means to run.

p.s. it's actually 30 years since Templot started on a programmable calculator. :)

regards,

Martin.
Hi Martin

Please accept my humble apologies for my accusatory tone, it is great to see that the passion hasn't died. To help in your task have you ever thought of starting a poll or two to find out what the users value most? That would at least give you a target set of features to concentrate on?

As for the subject at hand, I have to agree with everyone on their views of the future, the PC will live on for many years yet, the handheld set will use both.....

Cheers
Bruce

posted: 30 Nov 2010 13:09

from:

Judi R
 
Sutton-on-Sea - United Kingdom

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BeamEnds wrote: 
Indeed, but a native version would be nice, so I can delete Windows once and for all.
If you are running Wine, you don't need a copy of Windows.

Judi



posted: 30 Nov 2010 13:14

from:

Judi R
 
Sutton-on-Sea - United Kingdom

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Martin Wynne wrote:
p.s. it's actually 30 years since Templot started on a programmable calculator. :)
My word! That's a blast from the past! I remember using a programmable calculator in the BR LMR Bridge Office in the mid-70s for bridge design calculations!

I don't think I was particularly impressed, I was happy with my paper and pencil and Sinclair Cambridge calculator which I had built from the kit.

Happy days!

Judi



posted: 30 Nov 2010 13:44

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Judi R wrote:
If you are running Wine, you don't need a copy of Windows.
Hi Judi,

Likewise for Codeweavers Crossover on a Mac (which is essentially Wine).

However, I think Richard meant that he still needs Windows because he can't get Wine to work on his system. :)

regards,

Martin.

posted: 30 Nov 2010 13:52

from:

BeamEnds
 
 

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Martin Wynne wrote:
Judi R wrote:
If you are running Wine, you don't need a copy of Windows.
Hi Judi,

Likewise for Codeweavers Crossover on a Mac (which is essentially Wine).

However, I think Richard meant that he still needs Windows because he can't get Wine to work on his system. :)

regards,

Martin.
That's right. I'll have to give it a go on this machine which has a mint Ubuntu Studio installation.

Cheers
Richard

posted: 30 Nov 2010 14:05

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Judi R wrote:
My word! That's a blast from the past! I remember using a programmable calculator in the BR LMR Bridge Office in the mid-70s for bridge design calculations!
Hi Judi,

Here it is:

fx502p-1.jpgfx502p-1.jpg

Mine is on my desk in front of me now, looking even more battered, but still working fine after more than 30 years. It's been used almost every day since, much of that time in a toolmaking workshop with oil and swarf about. I have other calculators, but this is the one I always turn to first -- I think I could press the buttons with my eyes shut. :)

It cost the better part of a hundred pounds, which was a lot of money in 1979, but it's earned its keep many times over.

More info, including the manual, and image linked from:

 http://www.voidware.com/calcs/fx502p.htm

regards,

Martin.

posted: 30 Nov 2010 14:52

from:

Judi R
 
Sutton-on-Sea - United Kingdom

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Ours were Hewlett Packard but I can't remember the particular model ... that seems half a lifetime ago now!

Judi

posted: 30 Nov 2010 15:17

from:

Jim Guthrie
 
United Kingdom

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Judi R wrote:
Ours were Hewlett Packard but I can't remember the particular model ... that seems half a lifetime ago now!

Judi
I still work with an HP - been through several models since the mid-70s - HP25, HP11, HP32, HP33 and now HP35.

25_301012_590000000.jpg25_301012_590000000.jpg

Don't do as much programming on them as I used to,  but still comes in handy.  This one still does RPN,  but also handles algebraic,  and does it very well - excellent for book-keeping work :D

Jim.
Last edited on 30 Nov 2010 15:21 by Jim Guthrie
posted: 30 Nov 2010 16:02

from:

John Lewis
 
Croydon - United Kingdom

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For what it is worth at this late stage, I have a desktop (tower) PC and a laptop iwth a 15 inch screen. So far I have only used Templot on the PC.

Personally I prefer the PC with what was a large screen (19in). It is easier to type on and the large size screen is best for photographs, Templot etc.

I was persuaded to get the laptop because we were going to visit my daughter and family in South Africa where TV is not the best. Unfortunately the day we were due to go was when the shoebomber tried igniting his trainers. So my laptop has never been abroad, but it is useful as a second screen and essential when I go and photograph documents at the National Railway Museum. It is easy to download the photos to the laptop and check that I have not missed any and that they are sharp.

So if I have to replace the main PC, I will get another tower one; if I have to replace the laptop I will get another with a DVD writer and not a "nettop". I understand laptops now can drive flat screen monitors and TVs, so if I can only get a laptop I would get an additional screen to go with it.

Hope this is of some help!

posted: 1 Dec 2010 12:37

from:

Andy G
 
 

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I don't see the large screen disappearing because as others have said there are plenty of people with other requirements for them such as photographs and video. Also trying to produce any sort of document on a 10" screen must be a right pain. As for working with a spreadsheet unless it's a noddy one I always want a screen bigger than the one I've got! So I can't see the larger screen disappearing whether that's on a 'desktop' PC or a laptop.
What I would expect to happen is for touchscreen to become the norm - just imagine drawing tracks by pointing a finger at the screen. But this may be handled by the standard input routines of the machine rather than require changes to Templot.
Having said that I don't think the laptop will disappear I suspect that it will merge with iPad types so we end up with a 15-17" version of the tablet computers into which standard keyboard and mouse and possibly a big screen could be connected when at home. But the central machine would still effectively be the same, just smaller and built into the screen.
My concern would not be the hardware, people like big screens and they just get bigger. Alsorts of strange contraptions were tried in the 80's/90's to replace the Qwerty keyboard but none succeeded, so that is an almost certainty to survive unless speech recognition suddenly takes off.
What I would be concerned about is the operating system (OS). I could well imagine that Windoze as we know it won't exist and the likes of Android will be much more prevalent. Everybody will then be into a porting/re-writing exercise as they were at the change from DOS to Windows and it's whether or not Martin feels the inclination to do that.
Having said all of that you've no idea what the guy next door is doing in his garage that might change the way we view the world.
Also I've been running Templot under Wine on Ubuntu Maverick Meerkat (10.10) with no issues for the last few days.
Andy



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