Templot Club Archive 2007-2020                             

topic: 139 [0.91b] Uncontrolled printing
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posted: 24 Aug 2007 15:15

from:

Edward
 
 

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Background: recently upgraded to 0.91b;  PC platform is h/w + s/w unchanged and has successfully run all previous versions of Templot.

I downloaded and installed 0.91b and uploaded Martin's "dual gauge track" example. I printed out the dual-gauge layout (unaltered) and now I get multiple printed copies everytime I switch on my PC and while I'm working on other non-Templot related stuff. To make matters worse I now cannot run 0.91b Templot (I get as far as the ready, steady click, I click and then the window vanishes and nothing happens) despite uninstalling it and reloading it. I have followed all the suggestions in an earlier thread about "Templot Launch Failure" problettes with 0.91b but without success

Any remedial suggestions would be appreciated!

Edward
(Bristol)

posted: 24 Aug 2007 20:37

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Edward wrote:
Background: recently upgraded to 0.91b;  PC platform is h/w + s/w unchanged and has successfully run all previous versions of Templot.

I downloaded and installed 0.91b and uploaded Martin's "dual gauge track" example. I printed out the dual-gauge layout (unaltered) and now I get multiple printed copies everytime I switch on my PC and while I'm working on other non-Templot related stuff. To make matters worse I now cannot run 0.91b Templot (I get as far as the ready, steady click, I click and then the window vanishes and nothing happens) despite uninstalling it and reloading it. I have followed all the suggestions in an earlier thread about "Templot Launch Failure" problettes with 0.91b but without success.
Hi Edward,

er... that's weird!

I think the printing at switch-on must be a problem in the Windows printer spooler. From the Windows taskbar go to Start > Control Panel > Printers and Faxes. Open the printer which you are using. In the dialog which apears click the Printer > Cancel All Documents menu item. Then restart Windows.

This may also explain the problem launching Templot. During startup Templot builds a list of all available printers. If one is in use, or there is a problem with it, Templot may not be able to start.

If still no joy, please write again with a bit more information -- which version of Windows, make and model of printer, size of paper, print quality settings, etc.

regards,

Martin.


posted: 24 Aug 2007 22:34

from:

Dave Phillips
 
New Jersey USA

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Martin Wynne wrote:
This may also explain the problem launching Templot. During startup Templot builds a list of all available printers. If one is in use, or there is a problem with it, Templot may not be able to start.
Hmm...what if Templot can't find any available printers? Would it fail to launch under those conditions?

Dave

posted: 24 Aug 2007 22:58

from:

Dave Phillips
 
New Jersey USA

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Hi Martin,

Your last post may explain a lot. If in fact Templot needs to find a printer and won't launch if there is no printer found, it might explain the problems I've been seeing. At least some of the time I've had launch problems, I've been away with access to the internet but not to a printer. Right now, I'm away with no printer, and Templot won't launch. When I was having problems before, I was away with no printer. And sometimes at home, I have printing problems with shared printers connected to another computer when it's asleep.

Can you verify? And can you fix it?

Dave

posted: 24 Aug 2007 22:59

from:

Paul Boyd
 
Loughborough - United Kingdom

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I think the printing at switch-on must be a problem in the Windows printer spooler. From the Windows taskbar go to Start > Control Panel > Printers and Faxes. Open the printer which you are using. In the dialog which apears click the Printer > Cancel All Documents menu item. Then restart Windows.
It sems that HP printers can be particularly sticky in this respect, and I have had the job not visible in the print queue within Windows so the above won't work, but it's still in the system trying to print.

Worth a try:-
Go to the following folder: C:\windows\system32\spool\printers and delete the files there. If they are 'in use' that won't work, but it should after one reboot.
There's also a fix that involves stopping the printer spooler service in the "Services" section of "Asministrative Tools" in the control panel.  Stopping the print service then restarting it should clear the queue, but in practise what I've had to do is to stop the service, delete the files as described above then restart the service.

I agree with Martin in that this is almost certainly a print spool problem.

Hope this helps!



posted: 24 Aug 2007 23:04

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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    Dave Phillips wrote:
Martin Wynne wrote:
This may also explain the problem launching Templot. During startup Templot builds a list of all available printers. If one is in use, or there is a problem with it, Templot may not be able to start.
Hmm...what if Templot can't find any available printers? Would it fail to launch under those conditions?
Hi Dave,

From the download page on the Templot web site:

red_pointer.gifred_pointer.gif Templot may not be able to run if there is no default printer on the system. If there is no printer driver yet installed on your system, please install one before running Templot. You don't need a printer to be physically present, all that is needed is the driver program from the Windows CD-ROM for a typical printer, e.g. HP Deskjet. To install the driver, click Start > Settings > Control Panel > Printers > Add Printer . (If your system includes a fax-modem, it is likely that the fax software has installed a virtual printer, in which case another printer driver will not be necessary.)

However, what should happen is that you get a message from Templot saying it can't find any printers -- it shouldn't just die on you. The reason for needing a default printer is to know what size to draw the page outlines on the pad at startup.

Later versions of Windows include a dummy printer page size in the initial installation, so this restriction (which affects the Print Preview function in lots of software) should be no longer applicable.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 24 Aug 2007 23:13

from:

Dave Phillips
 
New Jersey USA

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Martin Wynne wrote: 
Templot may not be able to run if there is no default printer on the system.

However, what should happen is that you get a message from Templot saying it can't find any printers -- it shouldn't just die on you.
Well, I guess this is not my problem. I have print drivers installed and have printed successfully at home many times from Templot (and other applications). And I have never received a Can't Find Printers message. Rats!

Dave

posted: 25 Aug 2007 00:30

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Dave Phillips wrote:
Martin Wynne wrote: 
Templot may not be able to run if there is no default printer on the system.

However, what should happen is that you get a message from Templot saying it can't find any printers -- it shouldn't just die on you.
Well, I guess this is not my problem. I have print drivers installed and have printed successfully at home many times from Templot (and other applications). And I have never received a Can't Find Printers message. Rats!
Hi Dave,

It may be worth checking that the default printer driver is a local printer. I'm not too sure how Templot would behave if the default printer is a network printer which is not available at startup. Templot may be waiting for a network response which never comes.

I will investigate the code -- it's 8 years since I wrote it and it hasn't been touched since. But you have to set that against hundreds of Templot users not having any problem.

I would be grateful if you could confirm that this problem never occurs with 091a ? Or does it? :?

091x uses a later version of the compiler than 082x which may well be doing things differently in accessing the printer. But the only significant difference between 091a and 091b is the multiple monitor support. This requires extra memory -- but only if you actually use it.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 25 Aug 2007 00:51

from:

Dave Phillips
 
New Jersey USA

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Martin Wynne wrote:
It may be worth checking that the default printer driver is a local printer.
Hi Martin,

Sorry...how can I check to see if the default printer driver is a local printer? When I bring up available printers all of them indicate network connections by the horizontal "wire" under the icon, but I don't know where to find information on the drivers.

Dave

posted: 25 Aug 2007 01:04

from:

Dave Phillips
 
New Jersey USA

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Martin Wynne wrote:
I would be grateful if you could confirm that this problem never occurs with 091a ? Or does it?
Hi Martin,

I'll try 91a for a while. I just tried 92b and launch failed. Within a few seconds I tried 91a and it launched fine.

Dave

posted: 25 Aug 2007 01:21

from:

Paul Boyd
 
Loughborough - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin
I'm not too sure how Templot would behave if the default printer is a network printer which is not available at startup. Templot may be waiting for a network response which never comes.
I can answer that bit - it behaves absolutely fine!  My default printer is a networked HP Laserjet 4M+ of some vintage, and I only ever turn it on if I need to print something.  This means it spends most of it's time turned off.  I'm running 0.91b, by the way.

posted: 25 Aug 2007 02:47

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Paul Boyd wrote:
I'm not too sure how Templot would behave if the default printer is a network printer which is not available at startup. Templot may be waiting for a network response which never comes.
I can answer that bit - it behaves absolutely fine!  My default printer is a networked HP Laserjet 4M+ of some vintage, and I only ever turn it on if I need to print something.  This means it spends most of it's time turned off.  I'm running 0.91b, by the way.
Hi Paul,

I'm getting confused! :?

Just to clarify:

If you want to print templates from Templot, the printer driver you want to use must be available when Templot starts up. If it's a network printer, the computer running the driver must be available on the network. Whether the actual printer is turned on (or even exists) is irrelevant.

That applies only to templates. Other printing from Templot (such as printing out the Help notes) works in the same way as any other Windows program (because then there is no printer calibration required).

Are you saying that's not the case? If so I think I must do some further testing to see what's really going on.

Unfortunately none of this can be relevant to Dave's problem, because printing in 091a (which apparently starts up fine) is exactly the same as in 091b (which doesn't). At present it's all a bit of a mystery.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 25 Aug 2007 18:05

from:

Paul Boyd
 
Loughborough - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin
If you want to print templates from Templot, the printer driver you want to use must be available when Templot starts up. If it's a network printer, the computer running the driver must be available on the network.
Ah - it was the crucial word "driver" that was missing earlier :)  By "network printer", I was really thinking of a printer that has a network card in it rather than a shared printer on another PC, but I don't think that makes any difference to Windows.

I still think that Edward's "printing on start-up" problem is to do with a dodgy spool file rather than anything Templot related, but without more info it's hard to tell.  I suspect that if that problem gets fixed, then Templot will start up fine.  My theory is that whilst Templot is looking for the default printer, it's not getting a response because Windows has this stuck file in it's system.

posted: 25 Aug 2007 19:34

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Paul Boyd wrote:
By "network printer", I was really thinking of a printer that has a network card in it
Hi Paul,

As I've never had any contact with such a thing, can you tell me where the driver for it gets installed?

Regarding print spooling, if you go to the Printer Properties and look under the Advanced tab,  there are some interesting tickbox settings:

Hold mismatched documents

Print spooled documents first

Keep printed documents

Enable advanced printing features

I've read the What's This? help for these and in typical Windows style I can't say I'm much the wiser. :( How exactly do you "resubmit a document from the printer queue instead of from the program"? Is this the Document > Restart menu item when you open the printer? Ticking this box seems to imply that everything you print is kept in the printer queue for ever, or at least until you remember to delete it, which would surely cause some congestion if you don't happen to remember. Also I don't understand what is meant by a "mismatched" document?

As our printer correspondent, :) can you shed any light on these settings? Changing them may solve Edward's problem. Or not.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 26 Aug 2007 18:00

from:

Paul Boyd
 
Loughborough - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin
As I've never had any contact with such a thing, can you tell me where the driver for it gets installed?
The driver is installed on each PC that needs access to the printer, although the way it is installed is slightly different - I use the HP wizard for convenience.  I think as far as Windows is concerned it's just another driver, and Windows appears to see the printer as if it's physically connected to the PC.  Even though the physical printer itself may not be available, the icon isn't greyed out in the same way as other unavailable network printers are.  This does confuse some programs, and with Firefox, for instance, I need to ensure that the printer is physically turned on and ready before trying to print.  My other two printers (Canon and Alps) are just standard USB and parallel port connected!
I've read the What's This? help for these and in typical Windows style I can't say I'm much the wiser. :( How exactly do you "resubmit a document from the printer queue instead of from the program"? Is this the Document > Restart menu item when you open the printer? Ticking this box seems to imply that everything you print is kept in the printer queue for ever, or at least until you remember to delete it, which would surely cause some congestion if you don't happen to remember. Also I don't understand what is meant by a "mismatched" document?
I have no idea what a mismatched document is either :)  The "keep printed documents" does do just that, and must rapidly fill your hard drive because I think this is kept in "raw" format.  If you tick this box, anything you print remains visible in the print queue with a status of "Printed".  You resubmit in exactly the way you suggest - right click the required file and click on Restart.  This could be useful if you regularly need to print something but don't want the hassle of firing up the application and trying to remember what all the settings were.

Paul Boyd, Printer Correspondent, back to the studio :)




posted: 31 Aug 2007 18:00

from:

Edward
 
 

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Thanks to everyone who respnded on this topic and apologies for the late reply as I've just returned from holidays.

I should report immediately that the problem is solved/gone after implementing the suggestions that Paul made on Aug 24th. and Templot 0.91b is back up and running.

One final comment: when I last logged on to my PC (before implementing the solution) my HP 1022 laser printer started up immediately printing out yet another copy of Martin's dual-gauge trackplan which I had loaded a week earlier. I immediately went to printers in the control panel to delete the job only to see all the printer icons disappear. Even after the printing had finished the icons did not reappear - and only reappeared after implementing Paul suggestions.

many thanks again

Edward

posted: 31 Aug 2007 19:48

from:

Paul Boyd
 
Loughborough - United Kingdom

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Hi Edward

That's good news!  I had my suspicions that you were running an HP printer :)  It's the only brand where I've seen this happen, and the net seems to always mention HP in conjunction with this problem.

As to why Templot "froze" instead of warning, that's over to Martin :)

Cheers

posted: 31 Aug 2007 20:25

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Hi Edward,

Thanks for letting us know. I knew we could rely on our printer correspondent. :)

Paul Boyd wrote:
As to why Templot "froze" instead of warning, that's over to Martin :)

No it isn't. I haven't the faintest idea. :(

It's that nice Mr Gates you want.

Martin.



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