Templot Club Archive 2007-2020                             

topic: 1540Odd printing result
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posted: 17 Jun 2011 08:23

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Gordon S
 
 

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Hi guys, strange one that I need some help with.  No doubt it is something obvious, but I can't see it...

Printing off 30 odd pages and one page only has the rails missing and only shows the sleepers.  I've tried most obvious things but cannot find the error.

Any ideas?

479_170322_540000000.jpg479_170322_540000000.jpg


 

posted: 17 Jun 2011 09:15

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Jim Guthrie
 
United Kingdom

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Gordon,

I could be facetious and say "scrap thieves". :D

But I note that there is also a rail missing on the adjacent page.

Jim.

posted: 17 Jun 2011 09:30

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Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Hi Gordon,

That's very odd. :? There are no settings which can apply to an individual printed page. All settings are based on individual templates, or apply to all the pages.

However, as Jim says it seems to be more than one page, and on the second page there is just a tiny fragment of rail showing at the top left.

The settings to remove rails from a template are at do > omit rails and joint marks menu item. Anything there for these templates? Are the rails showing on the screen?

regards,

Martin.

posted: 17 Jun 2011 10:33

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Gordon S
 
 

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OK, a few things to help.  The main file and some screen shots showing the various results.  The sheets in question are S16/17 which incorporate the 15' line from the bottom of the screen.  This area is above the turntable and would figure about 1 o' clock on the top right.

Some pics.

479_170526_240000000.jpg479_170526_240000000.jpg


Hope these are clear enough as I had to take pictures with a camera.  Print screen just brought up the pop up menu.


479_170528_360000000.jpg479_170528_360000000.jpg


Now here's a strange one.  Closing right in shows there are double lines to the right hand rail in this shot. Selecting that rail only picks the two inner white lines on the rail and leaves the two outer lines in red untouched.  This double rail effect covers the whole length of rail down to H17 and prints fine on all the other sheets.  I don't think it is the cause, but unusual nevertheless.

479_170531_300000000.jpg479_170531_300000000.jpg



 
Attachment: attach_1108_1540_Eastwood_mid_and_low_level_17th_June_2011.box 379
Last edited on 17 Jun 2011 10:50 by Gordon S
posted: 17 Jun 2011 11:36

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Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Hi Gordon,

Thanks for posting your box file.

I'm baffled. :? I've looked closely at it and tried printing the area in question, and I can't find anything wrong. It prints fine here. Although with a different printer my page outlines don't exactly match yours.

I'm especially puzzled by your final screen pic with double rail edges. The only thing I can think is that this is related in some way to a generator setting you have for trackbed edges.

Unfortunately I can't identify from your pic which actual template that is. Do you think you could post a box file containing only that template? Or all templates displaying the same effect? (select it/them as a group, save group).

What happens if you restart Templot and reload the file?

p.s. If you are printing lots of pages today, why not download the latest TDV build? Then you can increase the font size for the corner page numbers, which I know you find troublesome. :)

regards,

Martin.

posted: 17 Jun 2011 12:03

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Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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p.s. Gordon,

I have now produced this by setting the trackbed edges on the adjacent template to 82.5mm width:

2_170659_480000000.png2_170659_480000000.png

Does that ring any bells?

regards,

Martin.

posted: 17 Jun 2011 12:10

from:

Gordon S
 
 

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Yes. The trackbed width is 82mm.

posted: 17 Jun 2011 12:17

from:

Gordon S
 
 

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Here's the templates affected without trackbed edges.  The sleepers are missing on R16 (on one track only),17,18 & S16 and 17.  Row T seems fine.
Attachment: attach_1109_1540_Eastwood_print_problem_template....box 361

posted: 17 Jun 2011 13:14

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Gordon S
 
 

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Any clues in this pic?  I can work with it, so no big deal, but curiousity has now got the better of me....:cool:

479_170813_580000000.jpg479_170813_580000000.jpg


posted: 17 Jun 2011 13:45

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Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Gordon S wrote:
Any clues in this pic?  I can work with it, so no big deal, but curiousity has now got the better of me....:cool:
And me. :?

The breaks on the upper sheet are occurring on template boundaries. On the lower sheet the break is on the page boundary. It's very odd. If it was hitting a memory limit in the spooler it wouldn't resume normal printing on subsequent sheets. At present I'm baffled. :(

What's making it difficult to analyse is that I can't reproduce the problem here. I have tried your file on 2 different versions of Windows and on 3 different printers, and it's printing fine. So at first sight it would seem to be printer-specific. Which printer are you using? Do you have another one you could try? A PDF generator perhaps? Anyone else tried printing it?

I tried your file in the TDV and exported it as a PDF, attached below. I set the page size to 11" x 8", as a best guess to your printer page limits. You could try printing this from Adobe or Foxit Reader and see how it matches. Make sure you set page scaling to "none".

regards,

Martin.
Attachment: attach_1110_1540_gordon_print.pdf 419

posted: 17 Jun 2011 14:03

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Gordon S
 
 

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Bit tied up for an hour or two, but will be back to you later today. I'm using a Dell 2230D laser but also have a Canon MG6150 that I can try.

Thanks for all your time. I'm fully prepared for operator error...:D

posted: 17 Jun 2011 15:47

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Gordon S
 
 

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Just tried printing on the Canon and it is fine....

Enjoy your weekend...:D

posted: 17 Jun 2011 16:03

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Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Gordon S wrote:
Just tried printing on the Canon and it is fine....

Enjoy your weekend...:D
Hmm

posted: 17 Jun 2011 16:59

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Gordon S
 
 

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Tried printing on the Dell again and same result. Followed your advice, shut Templot down and reopened and then loaded the file, rather than add from last session. Unfortunately nothing changed and S16,17 printed with the rails missing.....

Weird one...:D

posted: 17 Jun 2011 18:26

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Jim Guthrie
 
United Kingdom

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Gordon S wrote:
Tried printing on the Dell again and same result. Followed your advice, shut Templot down and reopened and then loaded the file, rather than add from last session. Unfortunately nothing changed and S16,17 printed with the rails missing.....

Weird one...:D
Gordon,

It might be worth seeing if there is an updated driver for the Dell printer.  It's sort of looking like a driver problem.

Jim.

posted: 28 Oct 2013 13:29

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Gordon S
 
 

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Hi Guys

A few years have passed and this has raised it's head again. To be honest I ran out of ink for the laser, so have been using my Canon Inkjet. I eventually got a new cartridge and the problem has returned but I now have some clues that may help…

I have both a Dell 2230d laser printer and a Canon Pixma MG6150 ink jet. I have an Apple Mac, but I use Templot on my Windows PC (XP + Service Pack 3). I still use Templot 0.91c as I'm used to it and it does what I need, but also use Templot 2.08b.

I have tried both sets of software on the same plan and still get the same result with random rails missing on the Dell printer.

I have tried both printers and the Canon works fine, which would point to a printer issue. I've tried to talk to Dell on this, but of course the printer works fine on everything else, so they say there isn't an issue with the printer.

The Dell printer is a much quicker and better printer, so I really would prefer to use it, but losing odd rails is a problem that I can't resolve.

I've deleted all the printer drivers and reloaded the latest ones but it doesn't change anything.

Here are some pics.

It really is random, but totally repeatable by printing the same pages again and again on the Dell printer. In some cases the rail finishes at the page edge on other it is mid page. Sometimes it's both rails, sometimes just one.

Apologies, I've forgotten how to upload images, but you will get the gist from the earlier ones….

Now, this could be an Eureka moment

I tried printing a complete plan this morning and noticed all the rails were there when I printed at 1/8 size. Same again when I selected 1/2 size, but the same rails disappeared when I selected 100%….


Is there any significance in the print size?

posted: 28 Oct 2013 14:39

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Nigel Brown
 
 

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This is probably a red herring. But I notice in the upper sheets where the non-printing template joins a printing template the id alongside the sleeper changes sides. Might just be co-incidence.

Nigel

posted: 28 Oct 2013 17:22

from:

Trevor Walling
 
United Kingdom

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Hello,
This could be related to internal memory of the printer failing.It could be failing at a certain address which would explain the problem just occurring at a certain setting.If the printer doesn't use the address in question every thing would be ok hence lack of problem at other settings.
trustytrev.

posted: 28 Oct 2013 18:16

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Gordon S
 
 

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Thanks Trevor. Is there any way I can test that? Would the address be the same if you were using a scaled down print? It works fine at all sizes bar 100%.

The machine is a Dell and here's a link to the tag number.

http://www.dell.com/support/drivers/us/en/19/servicetag/4SB6SH1

There also seem to be several print drivers listed. Which one should I be using?

Here is the manual.

ftp://ftp.dell.com/Manuals/all-products/esuprt_printers_main/esuprt_printers/dell-2230d_User's%20Guide_en-us.pdf

I'm going to try a factory reset to see if that helps.

Regards


Gordon S

posted: 28 Oct 2013 19:05

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Gordon S
 
 

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OK, tried a few more things.

Skeleton settings. Prints OK at full size.

Skeleton Rails plus timber outlines. Prints OK at full size.

Skeleton settings with timber outlines and both rail edges. Rails consistently missing on certain templates when printing full size but OK if scaled. I can repeat it time and time again on the same templates, so it is not a random occurence. It's always the same printed sheet and the same rail or rails.

If it's OK with sleepers and skeleton rails but goes adrift when you select both rail edges, it suggests to me something in the rail settings, but beyond that I'm out of my depth.

Does that help?

Gordon S
Last edited on 28 Oct 2013 19:08 by Gordon S
posted: 28 Oct 2013 22:00

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Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Gordon S wrote:
Skeleton Rails plus timber outlines. Prints OK at full size.

Skeleton settings with timber outlines and both rail edges. Rails consistently missing on certain templates when printing full size but OK if scaled.
Hi Gordon,

In that case try output > output drawing options > rail infill style > none menu option.

If that works, to make the rail edges more prominent for a construction template, you could increase the rail edge line thickness. At output > line thickness > set any line thickness... menu item increase the thickness for printed rail-edge line thickness.

If you are using 208b the above settings are included in your saved program preferences. Click preferences > begin saving preferences... on the program panel window.

If you are still using 091c they are in the print menu.



I think the problem is in the printer driver. The clipping region limits have been set too small for 600 DPI printing. I doubt there is anything you can do about it without contacting the original driver programmers.

If the problem is always with the same templates, you could try splitting them into two or more shorter templates. For plain track templates that is geometry > peg positions > peg on mid-length menu item, then tools > make split > make split at peg menu item. Remember to store the split off control template. For turnout templates split off any approach or exit track as plain track templates first.

The shorter templates may then print normally. Or not. :?

regards,

Martin.

posted: 29 Oct 2013 09:15

from:

Gordon S
 
 

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Great! We're making progress…

Did what you suggested Martin and first set rail infill style to none and that enabled the rails to be shown. Then tried the rail edge thickness at various settings from the default of 0.16mm. Managed to get it right up to 1mm and the rails still appeared correctly. At 1mm the lines combined to make one very heavy black line. Not particularly attractive, but had to be done…:-)

Having tried that, I went back and tried the infill again with 0.22mm line thickness. No rails. Tried again at 0.50mm line thickness. No rails, which would suggest it's adding the rail infill that makes the rails disappear.

Does that info help?

Thanks for all your help once again. This has been bugging me on and off for two years, so I'll be very happy to resolve it once and for all.

Edit: One last thing. I know it all shows correctly when you reduce the scale below 1:1, so I wondered what would happen if I went the other way. Took it up to 200% and with normal line thickness and rail infill the same rails disappeared.
Last edited on 29 Oct 2013 09:22 by Gordon S
posted: 5 Nov 2015 12:02

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Gordon S
 
 

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I know this is from some time ago, but I have finally tracked down the issue. I still had the same problem with printing on my Dell 2230D laser printer, but found it related to rail infill. I suspect it's a memory issue or software issue with the printer but Dell couldn't solve it at all.

Setting the print options - rail infill style to none rather than the default solid, cured the problem completely and I'm now able to print 50+ sheets at a time with no rails missing.

posted: 5 Nov 2015 13:39

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Gordon S wrote:
I know this is from some time ago, but I have finally tracked down the issue. I still had the same problem with printing on my Dell 2230D laser printer, but found it related to rail infill.
Hi Gordon,

Yes, I think we had established that in the previous couple of messages. Templot uses a different printer function when there is no rail infill. But the mystery of why the infill won't work presumably remains? Bearing in mind that it works most of the time, and works all the time on any other printer.

One thing you could possibly try which I omitted to suggest before:

1. delete the affected template to the control template

2. go to the program > main program panel.

3. click the program > expert > step size... menu item.

4. for 00 you should be seeing 6.0mm. Try entering a different number, say 12 or 20 or maybe 3 mm.

Click the info button to read some notes about this setting (written 20 years ago, and I have just read them again for the first time since then :) ).

5. store the template again and try printing it.

6. if it works, try the same on the other affected template(s). Sorry there is no way to do them all in one go.

Changing the subject, do you find that the pages are aligning accurately from the laser printer? Or have you been storing the paper somewhere hot and dry before use? Laser printers heat the paper, which can cause differential shrinkage, with sometimes mis-matches of up to 1mm or so on adjacent pages. Several users have reported such results, and I normally recommend using an ink-jet printer for accurate printing.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 11 Nov 2015 10:44

from:

Gordon S
 
 

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Hi Martin, apologies for not getting back sooner. Thanks for the suggestions, I'll give them a try later today.

I hadn't given much thought to the alignment issue with the laser printer, but have found a slight wander when sticking multiple pages together. I tend to take a reasonable compromise if I do see it wandering and then bring it back in line on subsequent sheets.

One of the problems this can give you is when you transfer the plan to the baseboard. If you have a slight wander on say 10 sheets taped together, you can be some way out without realising it. The wander could be caused by the printer, inaccurate cutting to the edges with a guillotine or even poor alignment when taping the sheets.

What I now do is use the digital ruler in Templot and take measurements to the track centre line where it crosses a baseboard join. This will give me a measurement from the front of the board to the track centre line on the left hand edge of the baseboard. Then using the same datum edge, I take a second measurement from the edge of the right hand end of the board to the track centre line and mark both of those spots on the board.

This will give you the correct measurements to accurately align each end of the print to the correct position on the board. If it has wandered at all, it will be obvious at that time and you can tweak the print using a scalpel blade to pull it back into alignment.

Sounds a lot more complicated than it is, but I have learned the hard way and laid track to a set of joined up prints and then found it didn't align with existing tracks some way away.

posted: 11 Nov 2015 12:06

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Gordon S wrote:
What I now do is use the digital ruler in Templot and take measurements to the track centre line where it crosses a baseboard join.
Hi Gordon,

Thanks. :)

There is a much faster way to do that. Use the CTRL+F8 mouse action to run the peg along the track centre-line. You will see that the peg co-ordinates are shown in the mouse action panel.

Here I'm moving the peg until it aligns with the baseboard join at 1000mm, after which the Y co-ordinate can be read off. Even if the base board join was obscured by a sleeper, by making the X co-ordinate show 1000mm the Y co-ordinate is available:

2_110643_270000000.png2_110643_270000000.png

If the lower baseboard edge is at an angle or not aligned to the grid, put a dummy track template along it. Then you can run the peg along that to get some co-ordinates for the baseboard edge. Subtract the one Y-value from the other to find the vertical distance along the baseboard join.

For more complex measurements, an alternative to the ruler tool is to use the jotter, tools > jotter • X-Y read-out menu item -- CTRL+FULL STOP to change the mouse to cross-hairs, then ALT+LEFT CLICK to zero the second read-out on the first location, and show subsequent movements of the mouse, including diagonally:

2_110701_390000000.png2_110701_390000000.png

(dX means "delta X" or "difference in X")

regards,

Martin.

posted: 12 Jan 2016 16:30

from:

Gordon S
 
 

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Hi Martin

I thought I had resolved this, but apparently not. I dumped the Dell printer and bought a brand new Samsung M2835W printer. Up until today it has worked fine and has printed off templates without issue.

Went to print today from 91C and low and behold rails were missing on one piece of track. I couldn't believe it...

Did my normal work round by setting rail infill to none and it then printed.

I know all bets are off when using 91c so I swapped over to 2.13A to print from there and was surprised to get the same result. What made it worse this time was that my usual work round of setting rail infill to none still didn't enable the rails to be shown.

Not sure where to go from here.

Any ideas anyone?


Gordon
Attachment: attach_2211_1540_DSCF7885.jpg 242

posted: 12 Jan 2016 17:12

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Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Hi Gordon,

I'm utterly baffled. :?

No-one else has ever reported anything similar, and Templot is now 15 years old.

On your 213a print I think I can see that you have set "blank" infill instead of "none". Can you double-check that and try again (and that you were in the output menu and not the trackpad menu).

("blank" in effect fills the rails with white, blanking out the timber detail between the rail edges. "none" simply draws the rail edges as single lines over the timbers.) 

Is this always on the same computer? If so it may be something in the Windows print spooler.

Are both of these printers laser printers? Do you get the same results with an ink-jet printer? (I normally recommend ink-jet printing to avoid differential shrinkage caused by heating the paper.)

mystified,

Martin.

posted: 12 Jan 2016 22:27

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Gordon S
 
 

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You and me both.....

I think you may be right re blank and none. I suspect I had selected the wrong one, so I'll start again.

These are all off the same PC. My Dell machine running Windows XP, Service Pack 3.

Both the Dell and Samsung printers are laser printers. I also have a Canon Pixma MG6150 ink jet printer. The reason I use the laser printer is speed. You have seen ET, so it's not unusual for me to run 70-100 pages out at a time.

Using group print. Rails set to solid or no infill. Sheet number B16. The results are from the Samsung M2835W (Laser) and Canon MG6150 (Inkjet)



Laser Printer - Samsung M2835W

1. 91C Solid. Scan 10. 479_121725_290000000.jpg479_121725_290000000.jpg

2. 2.13A Solid. Scan 11. 479_121725_290000001.jpg479_121725_290000001.jpg

3. 91C None. Scan 12. 479_121725_290000002.jpg479_121725_290000002.jpg

4. 2.13A None. Scan 13. 479_121725_290000003.jpg479_121725_290000003.jpg


Inkjet Printer - Canon MG6150

5. 91C Solid. Scan 14. 479_121726_150000000.jpg479_121726_150000000.jpg

6. 2.13A Solid. Scan 15. 479_121726_150000001.jpg479_121726_150000001.jpg

7. 91C None. Scan 16. 479_121726_150000002.jpg479_121726_150000002.jpg

8. 2.13A None. Scan17. 479_121726_160000003.jpg479_121726_160000003.jpg
Sorry Martin, I can't recall how to upload pics into the post, so have uploaded all the scans to the gallery pages.

Good luck!

Gordon

posted: 13 Jan 2016 10:02

from:

Gordon S
 
 

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Martin Wynne wrote:
Gordon S wrote:
I know this is from some time ago, but I have finally tracked down the issue. I still had the same problem with printing on my Dell 2230D laser printer, but found it related to rail infill.
Hi Gordon,

Yes, I think we had established that in the previous couple of messages. Templot uses a different printer function when there is no rail infill. But the mystery of why the infill won't work presumably remains? Bearing in mind that it works most of the time, and works all the time on any other printer.

One thing you could possibly try which I omitted to suggest before:

1. delete the affected template to the control template

2. go to the program > main program panel.

3. click the program > expert > step size... menu item.

4. for 00 you should be seeing 6.0mm. Try entering a different number, say 12 or 20 or maybe 3 mm.

Click the info button to read some notes about this setting (written 20 years ago, and I have just read them again for the first time since then :) ).

5. store the template again and try printing it.

6. if it works, try the same on the other affected template(s). Sorry there is no way to do them all in one go.

Changing the subject, do you find that the pages are aligning accurately from the laser printer? Or have you been storing the paper somewhere hot and dry before use? Laser printers heat the paper, which can cause differential shrinkage, with sometimes mis-matches of up to 1mm or so on adjacent pages. Several users have reported such results, and I normally recommend using an ink-jet printer for accurate printing.

regards,

Martin.



Just to complete the picture, Martin, I forgot to say that I did try step size 3mm and 12mm and it made no difference.

Gordon

posted: 13 Jan 2016 13:20

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Hi Gordon,

Thanks for taking the trouble to post those scans.

Just to summarise the situation:

1. with all printers, the "no infill" setting for the rails produces a usable result in all cases. So you are not prevented from continuing the build of Eastwood Town?

2. with an inkjet printer, the "solid infill" setting for the rails produces a usable result in all cases?

3. with two different laser printers, the "solid infill" setting for the rails causes some rails on some templates to be lost on some pages. But not all templates or on all pages?

In which case I am utterly baffled. :?

It can't be caused by metafile overflow, otherwise the "no infill" option would also not work. There must be something in the Windows GDI filled-polygon function which fails for laser printers but not for inkjets. I can't imagine what. And why it's ok in some cases and not others, and why no-one else has ever reported anything similar, is a complete mystery.

Gordon, have all these results always been from the same computer? Is it possible you could try again using a different computer?

Is there a "draft" or "fast" or "economy" or similar worded option on the laser printer? What happens if you try using it?

Can you identify anything about the track templates on which this problem occurs? Are they always very long, or longer than other templates? Are they always straight? Do they always span more printed pages than other templates? If so do they fail on all the pages, or only some of them?


The scans which you marked "note not solid" do in fact have a solid infill. The difference is that it is a solid white instead of solid black. In Templot2 I changed the setting for "black & white only" prints to allow the rail-foot lines to be shown for flat-bottom track.

Can you just clarify whether this is a colour laser or only for black&white? And if it is a colour laser, did you change the settings to print in black&white? Did you do that in Templot? Or on the printer's own setup dialog?

If you try printing in colour, what happens?

The only thing Templot knows about a printer is whether it is a colour printer or a black&white printer. Templot has no knowledge of whether it is a laser printer or an inkjet, or any other process.

One thing you might like to try is to display your entire trackplan in detail mode on the sketchboard, both for "no infill" and "solid infill" settings, and see if you can see anything relevant. Perhaps you could do that on two different computers?

On the trackplan tab untick in diagram mode, and then click the update now button and again after making any changes to the infill. I recommend using the zoom rectangle button to examine the relevant areas, otherwise it may be very slow to pan and zoom. Click the zoom > zoom normal menu item to zoom back out:

2_130804_460000000.png2_130804_460000000.png

regards,

Martin.

posted: 13 Jan 2016 14:09

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Gordon S
 
 

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Thanks Martin, just got back from my bi annual checkup at the Radcliife in Oxford, so I will attempt to give you some meaningful data this afternoon. It's really not a problem for me re building ET and I'm not suggesting it's a Templot issue as no one else has the problem.

I'm just curious what's causing it and it might just help you in the long term if we can work it out between us.

All the results are from the same computer. I have an old laptop that might just work and I assume I can download another copy of 2.13A. If I can set up the printers with my laptop, I might be able to get some samples.

In this case the template is a dummy and is 18' long. I've already tried deleting it and generating a new one with the same result. Previous sample prints are earlier in the thread and those are curved and were from the Dell printer. I'll try to print the whole length of the template and see what happens. I wouldn't be at all surprised that other pages of the same template are OK, because the prints earlier in this thread did exactly that. Most were OK, but the same one every time just wouldn't show the rails properly.

What is confusing me a little is that the Samsung printer showed no sign of this when I got it earlier in the week. I must have printed off 100 sheets with solid rails without problem and only saw this yesterday. I was very happy that the new printer appeared to have resolved the issue, so put it down to the old Dell.

The laser is B & W. The inkjet is colour.

Not sure about drafts etc as it's new. I'm sure there are other settings. I just need to find them.

I seem to recall using a help facility with some friends where they could dial into my PC and use it remotely. If it comes to it, I'm happy for you to dial in.

Just going to have some lunch, so I'll get back to you in an hour or so...


Gordon

posted: 13 Jan 2016 15:01

from:

Martin Wynne
 
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Hi Gordon,

Before you try anything else, could you try changing this setting to no limits and see if it makes a difference:

2_130956_010000000.png2_130956_010000000.png

By my calculations the laser printer would need to be set to an incredibly high dpi setting for this to make any difference, but it's worth a try because I can't think of any other likely difference between a laser and an inkjet.

It's interesting that the affected template is very long. Does it need to be so long? Have you tried splitting it in half into two shorter templates? Do they both print ok?

regards,

Martin.

posted: 13 Jan 2016 16:19

from:

Gordon S
 
 

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Not sure how you how you want to do this, but here's a start.

2.13A. I have graphics to no limit.

Scans 18,19,20,21,22,23 all uploaded to gallery.

All B & W printing apart from 18. All from the Samsung laser printer.

Scan 18 set to colour print. Sleepers on dummy feint as they were yellow on screen. Rails solid.

479_131119_180000000.jpg479_131119_180000000.jpg

Scan 19. Set to B & W print. Still no rails on dummy but solid rails on template have now gone to none.....

479_131119_180000001.jpg479_131119_180000001.jpg


479_131119_180000002.jpg479_131119_180000002.jpg


479_131119_180000003.jpg479_131119_180000003.jpg


No rails on dummy template until you get to Scan 22 when rails appear.


479_131119_180000004.jpg479_131119_180000004.jpg


479_131119_370000000.jpg479_131119_370000000.jpg


I now have my laptop up and running with 2.13A and 91C. I will transfer the layout plan and try from there.

Many thanks

Gordon

posted: 13 Jan 2016 16:32

from:

Gordon S
 
 

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OK, laptop hooked up and working.

Dell 1.73Ghz processor. 1GB RAM
Windows XP. Service Pk 3.

Samsung laser printer. Solid rails. B & W printing.

Sadly same result as my Dell desktop.

Scan 24....

479_131132_260000000.jpg479_131132_260000000.jpg


Gordon

posted: 13 Jan 2016 16:47

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Gordon S
 
 

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At last some clues!

It seems to be length related.

OK at 561mm

OK at 1.6m

OK at 4.0m

Gone at 5.6m.

Rails are still 2 lines rather than solid, but at last we're getting somewhere.

I wonder how many other users have templates 5.6m long.....:-)

Could be the answer.


Gordon

posted: 13 Jan 2016 16:54

from:

Martin Wynne
 
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Gordon S wrote:
OK at 4.0m

Gone at 5.6m.
Hi Gordon,

Thanks for the scans.

I suspected the template length could be a factor. :)

But it doesn't explain:

1. why the rails are on some pages and not on others, and

2. why it affects a laser printer and not an inkjet.

What happens if you make it a lot longer than before, say double?

Have you done a calibration for the new printer? What printer information was given on the calibration prints?

Martin.

posted: 13 Jan 2016 17:14

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Gordon S
 
 

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Sorry Martin, I meant to say I really appreciate your help so far, but got dragged off to light the fire....

I didn't bother sending scans 25-28 re the different lengths.

Set it at 12077mm and the rails were missing, but do appear on the left hand edge. Scan 29:

479_131214_480000000.jpg479_131214_480000000.jpg

Printer calibrations are on scan 30:

479_131214_480000001.jpg479_131214_480000001.jpg

Hope that helps.

Scans in gallery.


Gordon

posted: 13 Jan 2016 17:26

from:

Martin Wynne
 
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Hi Gordon,

I have been on the web to look at your printer spec. :)

Apparently the resolution is: "Up to 4,800 x 600 dpi".

Such high resolution in a printer makes no sense to me (human eyes can't resolve beyond about 600dpi at best, and often much less), and I don't know what "up to" means, because I can't find any means in the instructions to change it.

However, 4800dpi is way beyond anything I had in mind when writing the Templot printer code years ago, and I'm a bit surprised it works at all. :?

It's far higher than on inkjet printers.

What is clear that the resolution in one direction is 8 times greater than the other.

This means that changing from end-run to side-run printing may change things entirely. Missing rails may reappear, while others may disappear. Have you tried that?

If this resolution can't be changed in the printer settings, I'm going to have to think about how to get round it in Templot.

regards,

Martin.



posted: 13 Jan 2016 17:28

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Gordon S
 
 

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Just to complete the set, thought I would try again in the Inkjet printer.

Scan 31 is 12077mm template set to B & W printing. The solid rails are not infilled.
479_131228_110000000.jpg479_131228_110000000.jpg

Scan 32. Set to colour printing and now rails are filled, but it printed in B & W / Greyscale.
479_131228_120000001.jpg479_131228_120000001.jpg

I had set output drawing options/colour options to using pad market colours, but it printed in B & W/Greyscale.

Have I misunderstood the options?

I hope these all give you some clues as to what is happening...


Gordon

posted: 13 Jan 2016 17:39

from:

Gordon S
 
 

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Martin Wynne wrote:
Hi Gordon,

I have been on the web to look at your printer spec. :)

Apparently the resolution is: "Up to 4,800 x 600 dpi".

Such high resolution in a printer makes no sense to me (human eyes can't resolve beyond about 600dpi at best, and often much less), and I don't know what "up to" means, because I can't find any means in the instructions to change it.

However, 4800dpi is way beyond anything I had in mind when writing the Templot printer code years ago, and I'm a bit surprised it works at all. :?

It's far higher than on inkjet printers.

What is clear that the resolution in one direction is 8 times greater than the other.

This means that changing from end-run to side-run printing may change things entirely. Missing rails may reappear, while others may disappear. Have you tried that?

If this resolution can't be changed in the printer settings, I'm going to have to think about how to get round it in Templot.

regards,

Martin.




That's technology for you....:-)

Unlike me to be at the cutting edge....The Dell was 1200 x 1200dpi.

Off to check out the Samsung manual.


Gordon

posted: 13 Jan 2016 17:45

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Gordon S
 
 

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Aha! Changed to landscape....

Scan 33
479_131245_220000000.jpg479_131245_220000000.jpg

Dinner is now on the table and I'll get hanged if I don't go....:-)


Gordon

posted: 13 Jan 2016 18:30

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Martin Wynne
 
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Hi Gordon,

Thanks for those.

For the calibration sheet I meant this one with the printer info at the top:

2_131327_310000000.png2_131327_310000000.png

regards,

Martin.

posted: 13 Jan 2016 18:38

from:

Gordon S
 
 

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Where do I find that without re calibrating?

I think I've looked in all the obvious places..

Apologies I misunderstood. I was looking for one with dimensions loaded.

Here they are....

479_131354_380000000.jpg479_131354_380000000.jpg

Gordon

posted: 13 Jan 2016 18:55

from:

Martin Wynne
 
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Gordon S wrote:
Where do I find that without re calibrating?

I think I've looked in all the obvious places..
Hi Gordon,

Just do a calibration. output > printer calibration > calibrate printer... menu item. If you don't want to change your existing settings, click cancel after the sheet is printed.

I don't need a scan of the sheet, just need the numbers showing along the top.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 13 Jan 2016 18:58

from:

Gordon S
 
 

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No problem. Posts crossed...

posted: 13 Jan 2016 19:24

from:

Martin Wynne
 
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Thanks Gordon.

Well that's stumped me. :?

I was expecting one or other of the first two numbers to be 4800, and wanted to know which one.

It's time for me to cook a meal now, while I have a think. At present I can't see an easy fix, your only option at present being to print with infill > none. Can you just confirm that is now working for all the templates on all pages?

Have you tried printing using the output > print in grey shades option? Or is it greyed out?

regards,

Martin.

posted: 13 Jan 2016 19:55

from:

Gordon S
 
 

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Getting near!

Just tried again. There are rails missing when printing in Portrait Mode. Changing to Lanscape all is fine.

Printed the dummy template 12077mm long with solid rails on print colour setting.

Everything seems to point to the length of the template and the orientation.

12077mm is fine when printing in Landscape. Problems occur when printing a long vertical template in Portrait. Scans 36 and 37.

Now to prove that point, I've generated a 12m horizontal template. When printed in portrait format all the rails are there as solid lines.

Changing to landscape gives the same result as before. The rails are now solid on the proper template but completely missing on the dummy.

Scans 38 and 39.

Tried printing in grey scale and it made no difference.

Regards


Gordon
Last edited on 13 Jan 2016 19:58 by Gordon S
posted: 15 Jan 2016 13:46

from:

Martin Wynne
 
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Hi Gordon,

Thanks for the further scans.

The rails which you are saying are not solid are in fact solid filled. It's just that the solid filling is white in colour. Templot now does that when you set black&white output, so that when printing flat-bottom rail foot lines, all the rail edges are visible.

If you want to see a darker solid infill, leave the default on the colour printing setting and allow your laser printer to convert it to black & white.

I have now spent several hours testing and checking Templot and I have been totally unable to reproduce the missing rails problem here. :?

I have had templates up to the maximum length Templot allows (18 metres in 4mm scale), rendering without errors on device contexts up to 5 million dots in both directions at up to 4800dpi.

Until I can see the problem here, I don't know what more I can do. It seems to me possible that the problem is in your laser printer drivers. It's quite possible that although one is Dell and the other is Samsung, that they both come from the same source in China, using the same basic drivers. An inkjet printer driver would be different, perhaps explaining why you have not seen the problem from the inkjet printer.

The only thing I can think to do is add yet another option to the printing setup (everyone groan :) ), so that you can tell Templot it is a laser printer and not an inkjet. Templot could then draw the rails twice, once using the normal solid infill, and then over the top with no infill. This would ensure that where the first fails, you would still see the rail edges. It would make the printing slower, but possibly not by too much.

It is interesting that your scan 29 includes a short length of rail correctly rendered, including a closed rail end. Templot does not close the ends of plain track rails, so I would like to investigate this further.
Could you post a .box file containing just this template? Thanks.

479_131214_480000000.jpg479_131214_480000000.jpg

regards,

Martin.

posted: 15 Jan 2016 15:19

from:

Gordon S
 
 

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Hi Martin

Many thanks for all your work on this. It's clear it's something peculiar about my computer/printer set up as no one else is having the same problem.

Here is the box file you requested. It is a vertical template 12077mm long that I have had to set up, as to be honest I haven't got much of a clue how I arrived at that result yesterday and which file contains that template....

However, I did what I could to generate a new template which I believe is PL256 rather than PL251.

The good news is that when I printed the template, it did exactly what the previous one did, so hopefully that will help.

Regards


Gordon S
Attachment: attach_2214_1540_Single_template.box 263
Last edited on 15 Jan 2016 15:20 by Gordon S
posted: 15 Jan 2016 16:09

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Martin Wynne
 
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Hi Gordon,

Thanks for the file. At first sight I can't find anything wrong or different about this template.

If you print this template, do the rails go missing all at one end? Which end? Or are the rails missing on some pages in the middle, and ok at the ends?

When the rails go missing, how many pages is it on? Are those pages all together in a row, or odd individual pages?

If you gently curve the template (so that it is still on the same number of pages), do the rails stop and start in the same places?

Are there some pages where the rails are missing on part of the page only?

Sorry that's a lot of questions, but I'm trying to avoid having to go and buy one of these printers to test it here. :(

regards,

Martin.

posted: 15 Jan 2016 22:17

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Gordon S
 
 

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Just ran off 20+ sheets.

Results. I'll scan any interesting ones.

A15 OK

B16 See scan
479_151720_190000000.jpg479_151720_190000000.jpg

C15 No rails
D16 No rails
E15 No rails
F16 No rails
G15 No rails
H16 No rails
I 15 No rails
J16 No rails

K15 See scan
479_151720_200000001.jpg479_151720_200000001.jpg

L16 OK
M15 OK
N16 OK
O15 OK

P16 See scan
479_151720_200000002.jpg479_151720_200000002.jpg

Q15 No rails
R15 No rails
S15 No rails
T16 No rails
U15 No rails
V16 No rails
W15 No rails
X 16 No rails

Y15 See scan
479_151720_200000003.jpg479_151720_200000003.jpg

Z16 OK

I'm off to bed now. I'll look at the other stuff tomorrow.

Good luck.


Gordon

posted: 16 Jan 2016 00:47

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Martin Wynne
 
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Hi Gordon,

Many thanks for those scans.

Please don't do any more, I am wasting your time and paper asking more questions.

I wish I had asked for this sequence earlier, hindsight is a wonderful thing. I didn't realise that the rails were going on and off like this in mid-page along the length of the template, I was thinking it was all or nothing.

I am now convinced this is a bug in the filled-polygon function in the laser printer drivers. Whether it applies to all laser printers, or you have been very unlucky in getting two printers affected, I don't know. I don't have any laser printers and have never used them.

I have now set the exact same page size and resolution on several device contexts, including my inkjet printer, and I can't reproduce this, from this same template or any other. Since there is nothing in Templot which changes according to whether the printer is a laser or an inkjet, or indeed when the output is to any other device context, the only possible conclusion is that this problem is external to Templot.

I don't like admitting defeat, but unless I'm missing something obvious the only thing we can do is wait and see if anyone else reports anything similar.

If anyone reading this is using an A4 laser printer and would care to repeat the experiment, it would be good to have your results. Gordon posted the .box file earlier, all you need to do is print it using the default settings. Thanks.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 16 Jan 2016 06:52

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Gordon S
 
 

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Thanks for spending so much time on this Martin. When I had the same problem with my Dell printer, I did contact Dell, but they were not interested at all as they didn't see it was a problem with their computers or printers.

I have a work round by reducing the overall length of that particular template, but I guess I'm like you, once something bugs me I will try everything to get the root of the problem.

Unfortunately I don't have your IT knowledge so I have been very much in your hands and once again, I'm very grateful for your help.

Is there anything I can do on the print driver front? I suppose not as the brand new Samsung printer would have come with it's own print drivers or is that a function of Windows XP?

Hopefully someone else can come up with the same result.

Regards


Gordon

posted: 16 Jan 2016 08:00

from:

Martin Wynne
 
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Gordon S wrote:
Is there anything I can do on the print driver front? I suppose not as the brand new Samsung printer would have come with it's own print drivers or is that a function of Windows XP?
Hi Gordon,

Maybe.

Often printers have a choice of drivers, a basic generic driver provided by Windows, so that the printer works if you simply plug it in via the USB cable. And a more functional driver provided by the printer manufacturer, typically provided on a CD or by download. I don't know which applied to your printers? Given that the problem applies to two different laser printers, I suspect they are both using the same generic driver, or one derived from it. Unfortunately the detailed information is proprietary to the manufacturer, so it is difficult to investigate.

You may find if you go to the Samsung web site that there is an updated driver available, even for a brand new printer. The software provided with a product typically doesn't change from what was provided on the day it was first introduced, to keep the mass-produced manufacturing cost to a minimum.

Since very few users of laser printers are printing 18ft long drawings of railway track, it is quite possible that the flaw is still present in an updated driver, because it simply doesn't show up in any more typical uses of a laser printer. So even if you find an updated driver, I wouldn't raise your hopes too much that it is going to fix the problem. But it would be worth getting anyway.

The best we can do is wait and see if other users can report similar results and under what conditions on which printers and which versions of Windows, to enable us to narrow down the problem and maybe find a way round it.

In the meantime, printing with "no infill" should always work, because that doesn't use the filled-polygon function. I originally provided that option in Templot for much older printers -- the old dot-matrix printers (with an ink ribbon) and flatbed pen-plotters. It's noticeable how often we have to fall back on older technology when the latest gee-wizz stuff fails.

I believe you are using a Mac computer for Templot? Is that via Windows, or using Linux/CrossOver/Wine? Templot works quite well that way, and it would be interesting to know if the same problem shows up when laser printing from Linux/Wine. Anyone? 

regards,

Martin.

posted: 16 Jan 2016 08:11

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Gordon S
 
 

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I do have a Mac which I use for everything else. I did think about running Templot on it and bought Parallels and a copy of Windows 7.

It did work but I recall there was an issue (for me) related to the F keys or something else that made it more cumbersome to use, so I abandoned that idea and left it on my Windows XP computer, where it still is to this day.

When this cropped up again, I did consider loading it back on my Mac to work out what the issue was with the F keys or keyboard, but couldn't do that as my Mac had moved onto Yosemite and Parallels would no longer work. I could have spent another £40 updating Parallels but there seemed no point as I was quite happy running it on my old PC.

It's not life or death and apologies for taking up so much of your time. I can work round it, but am curious how I always end up with these unusual issues. I wish my lottery tickets worked in the same fashion....:-)

Regards


Gordon

posted: 16 Jan 2016 08:57

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Martin Wynne
 
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Hi Gordon,

Parallels+Windows is likely to have exactly the same problems. It's not worth going that route.

But Wine isn't Windows, so there is a fair chance the drivers are using different code. If there are problems with the keyboard, you can possibly get round them by plugging in the USB keyboard from your Windows computer.

You could try the free trial of the easy-install CrossOver/Wine  from Codeweavers:

 http://www.codeweavers.com

Or the same thing is entirely free from:

 http://winebottler.kronenberg.org

but not so straightforward to install.

If you later decide to buy CrossOver, make sure you click the more options link on the ordering page. The current price without support is £25. The support is primarily for users of office software and unlikely to be any help when running Templot. Codeweavers often have short-term special offers available which I post on here if I know about them.

There are several users running Templot on a Mac via CrossOver who can advise further.

But don't buy it until you have tried the free trial to see if it fixes the problem. Maybe someone can report?

regards,

Martin.

posted: 16 Jan 2016 11:46

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Gordon S
 
 

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Thanks Martin. OK, some good news!

I have loaded up Codeweavers onto my Mac and the template prints out without problem. All pages have both rails so Yahoo!

Does that give you any more clues?

However, I am now reminded of the problems I had with my Mac and operating Templot.

F2, F3, F4 cannot be used as it stands because they default to dedicated Apple commands.

F2 is screen brightness
F3 brings up multiple windows on the screen
F4 brings up the clock and various other applications
F5 is OK
F6 is OK
and F7 seems to do nothing at all.

I have no idea how you separate those functions commands from the defaults just to use Templot.

That was where I got to last time so abandoned the whole thing and went back to my Windows machine.

Martin, you have been very helpful over the years and it has been some time since I made a donation to Templot. If you would send me your address by email, I'll happily buy you a new Samsung laser printer for you to play around with and hopefully find out what is causing these issues.

After all, I've had years of pleasure from Templot and your support has been first class


Gordon

posted: 16 Jan 2016 13:02

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Martin Wynne
 
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Gordon S wrote:
I have loaded up Codeweavers onto my Mac and the template prints out without problem. All pages have both rails so Yahoo!

Does that give you any more clues?
Hi Gordon,

That's great. :) You got that running very quickly! How do you like Templot running it that way?

It doesn't really provide any new clues about the problem in the Windows driver, but it does prove that the problem is not in Templot itself. 

F2, F3, F4 cannot be used as it stands because they default to dedicated Apple commands. F2 is screen brightness F3 brings up multiple windows on the screen F4 brings up the clock and various other applications F5 is OK F6 is OK and F7 seems to do nothing at all.
Down somewhere near the bottom left of your Mac keyboard, there is a key marked Fn. (Or it may be bottom right). If you hold it down while pressing the F keys, they should work normally in Templot. I say "should" because I don't have a Mac and have never tried it, and CrossOver may not detect the Fn key. But it should work.

If you want to swap the Mac settings so that the F keys work normally, and Fn provides the special functions, this page contains the instructions:

 http://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT204436

For CTRL-F1 to CTRL-F10 in Templot you can simply press numbers 1 to 0 instead along the main keyboard. Print out the F-key chart to see the other single-key alternatives -- help > print F-key chart menu item.

The F keys and others seem to be disappearing from the latest computers and tablets, or else require using an awkward Fn key -- for example my Surface Pro tablet has no Insert key. So I'm intending to add a floating on-screen keyboard in the next Templot update. A few basic functions are already available on the beginner buttons along the top of the trackpad, and this will extend that idea. All the functions are always available on the action menu and the other menus, so that Templot could be used without a keyboard at all, but the keyboard or a touch-screen is much faster.

Martin, you have been very helpful over the years and it has been some time since I made a donation to Templot. If you would send me your address by email, I'll happily buy you a new Samsung laser printer for you to play around with and hopefully find out what is causing these issues.
Gordon that is very kind of you, but I can't let you do that. You previously made a very generous contribution to the donations fund, and you don't owe me anything. Even if I had the printer I'm far from confident that I would be able to do anything about it, and it would be wasted. But thank you for the offer.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 16 Jan 2016 20:28

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Andrew Barrowman
 
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I haven't really been keeping up with all the exciting details, but what happens if you export the template rather than print it? That might provide further confirmation (should any be needed) that it's a driver issue.

posted: 16 Jan 2016 21:14

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Martin Wynne
 
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Andrew Barrowman wrote:
what happens if you export the template rather than print it? That might provide further confirmation (should any be needed) that it's a driver issue.
Hi Andy,

I have tried all possible exports, PDF, metafiles, bitmaps, and they all print perfectly. But then so does direct printing, here.

I didn't suggest the PDF route to Gordon because it is not really a practical solution for printing 70+ separate pages. The file size would be massive, and there is no printer calibration function. The PDF export is intended for:

1. printing individual construction templates on a different computer.

2. printing entire track plans as a single sheet at a digital copyshop on wide-format roll paper.

Even if the PDF reader program managed to print filled polygons to the laser printer successfully we may not be much further forward, without knowing how the PDF reader program (of which there are many) has reformatted or rescaled the metafile data. Also there will be differences in the page size and page boundaries. We already know that the printer problem is intermittent so it may not show up with the same template.

Gordon could perhaps try it if he wishes, but he has already wasted a lot of time and paper on this problem. Now that he is printing ok to his laser from CrossOver/Wine, I imagine he wants to get on with the layout build. :)

regards,

Martin.

posted: 16 Jan 2016 22:28

from:

Gordon S
 
 

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I will continue to use Windows XP and not Crossover as the Fn button didn't do anything at all. To be honest I got in a muddle installing Crossover as I didn't really understand if I needed to load Windows or not and found the whole thing about 'bottles' confusing.

I suspect I will take it off again on Monday (golfing tomorrow) and start again. I found myself virtually guessing what to do half way through as it certainly wasn't intuitive for an IT numpty like me......although it did open Templot but I have no idea how or why....:-)

Just thinking about the whole thing, the only common denominator in this process is my Dell PC and Windows XP. When I had Codeweavers working on my Mac, I could print normally so that rules out the printer.

It all points back to my Dell and XP but as that is no longer supported (XP) I fear I am stuck with it.

It worked perfectly well on the laser printer when I shortened the template to a metre or two. That's when it all changed. I created a dummy template to show the line of my baseboard and in this case it was 5m long. As soon as I reduced the length the printing was fine.

Just off to bed, so I will confirm that is the case tomorrow afternoon or Monday. I'm sure it was confirmed on one of my earlier scans...

Thanks guys


Gordon
Last edited on 17 Jan 2016 06:08 by Gordon S
posted: 16 Jan 2016 23:38

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Gordon S wrote:
I will continue to use Windows XP and not Crossover as the Fn button didn't do anything at all. To be honest I got in a muddle installing Crossover as I didn't really understand if I needed to load Windows or not and found the whole thing about 'bottles' confusing.
Hi Gordon,

Oh dear. I was thinking from your previous post that you had it all solved and working. :)

No you don't need Windows or Parallels with CrossOver. Just the basic Mac.

The whole point of Wine is that it is not Windows.

It is a completely separate free program which pretends to be Windows in order to run programs such as Templot (which are designed to run on Windows) without needing a Windows computer.

Wine is not connected with Microsoft and doesn't contain anything at all from Windows.

Wine is originally intended for Linux computers, where installation is just a couple of clicks. Linux computers are similar to PCs but use the free Linux operating system instead of Windows. They have their own separate free programs to replace Windows programs such as Office. But Wine makes it possible to run most Windows programs on there too, including Templot. 

Programs such as CrossOver and Winebottler have packaged Wine to run on Mac computers too.

CrossOver is paid-for Wine installer which I have been told is very easy to install and use.

Winebottler is similar and entirely free, but more techy to install.

I'm sorry I don't have a Mac computer or any knowledge of them, so I can't explain the CrossOver installation in detail, I can only repeat what I have been told. But I know several Mac users are successfully running Templot using CrossOver. We need one of them to come on here and give you a hand getting started. I will start a separate topic for that.

I do have a Linux system and use Wine to test and run Templot on there, so I do know that it works. :)

A couple of links for you:

 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/103753-bypassing-templot-updates/#entry2045710

 message 7823

regards,

Martin.

posted: 17 Jan 2016 00:45

from:

Andrew Barrowman
 
USA

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Hi Martin,

Sounds like you have it surrounded. (They don't call me MOTO for nothing you know.)

I was thinking of the export more as a diagnostic than a workaround. I'm not sure if this would help or complicate things even more, but Gordon might be able to save some paper while diagnosing the problem by printing to Cutepdfwriter http://www.cutepdf.com/Products/CutePDF/writer.asp rather than a physical printer.

If I understand correctly, Cutepdfwriter masquerades as a printer but instead of printing on paper, it prints to a PDF file instead. I used to use it quite a bit on XP, but I don't have it installed on any machines at the moment.

Cheers,
MOTO

(Master Of The Obvious)

posted: 17 Jan 2016 02:07

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Andrew Barrowman wrote:
If I understand correctly, Cutepdfwriter masquerades as a printer but instead of printing on paper, it prints to a PDF file instead.
Hi Andy,

There are a great many similar virtual printers and PDF generator programs.

But Gordon doesn't need any of them because Templot has its own native PDF generator with much better functionality for large page sizes and trim margins. See output > export a file ... menu item.

They have their own drivers replacing the printer driver, so simply exporting the file to them doesn't tell us anything about the printer driver.

The interesting part is what happens when you use a PDF reader program* (not Templot) to print the PDF file to the laser printer. To see if that program can get the laser printer to work where Templot fails to do so. (So saving nothing in paper, and taking even more time.) My guess is that the template in question will work fine, but some other template will fail. Even if it works we won't really know why or be much further forward in getting Templot to do the same. The only way to do that is to get Samsung to send us their code for the printer driver. Fat chance. :)

Unless we get some feedback from other users I think we have reached the end of the road in getting this laser printer to work properly on Windows XP with Templot-style multi-page output. It may work on later versions of Windows.

My preferred solutions are:

1. Use an inkjet printer instead. I know it is slower and more expensive in ink, but it will be far more accurate for track templates than a laser printer. My Canon inkjet takes a long time to get the message that it is supposed to be printing, but once started it churns out the pages quite fast. Ink consumption can be minimized by printing using the output > black & white only setting in Templot, or even more by using grey shades printing option and reducing the intensity setting on the print pages dialog until there is barely any ink on the paper at all. :)

2. Print to the laser printer using the no-infill option for the rails. So far this seems to be working ok.

3. Don't use Windows. I think if Gordon can get CrossOver installed it will probably work ok. It will be using the Mac printer driver instead of the Windows driver. It also means Templot will be running on the nice Mac screen.

*my preference is PDF-XChange Viewer from Canada:

  http://www.tracker-software.com/product/pdf-xchange-viewer

regards,

Martin.

posted: 17 Jan 2016 11:16

from:

Gordon S
 
 

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Morning all....Golf was eventually abandoned (thank God!). Had it not been Captains Drive In with 150 turning out it would have been called off before it started.

OK, I removed Crossover and reinstalled it this morning, reading all the instructions on the way....:-)

Templot now works on my Mac and I have been able to use the F keys. Some work OK anyway and the others work once you use the Fn key first.

I'm quite happy that we have explored all the options, so please accept my thanks for all the support on the way.

I have a solution that works and I'm happy with. I will continue to use my Dell plus XP and have a choice of no infill that works perfectly with all templates or use solid infill, but restrict length of templates to around 4m as tests showed there was only a problem with longer length templates.

Everything points to a driver problem in XP that only makes itself apparent when using Templot and a laser printer. Absolutely nothing wrong with Templot, but I never thought there would be anyway.....

Thanks again for the support since this arose a while back. I'm happy to close this thread now and get on with my own layout. I'm sure you all have better things to do as well..

posted: 17 Jan 2016 11:58

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Gordon S wrote:
Templot now works on my Mac and I have been able to use the F keys. Some work OK anyway and the others work once you use the Fn key first.
Hi Gordon,

I'm glad you got it working in the end. :)

To make all the F keys work normally, this is from Apple:



If you prefer the top row of keys to always behave as standard function keys without holding the Fn key:
  1. Choose System Preferences from the Apple menu.
  2. From the View menu, choose Keyboard.
  3. Click the Keyboard tab if it is not already selected
  4. Enable "Use all F1, F2, etc. keys as standard function keys."
With this option enabled, the top row of keys acts as standard function keys (F1 - F12).

(To use a feature indicated by the icon printed on a key, hold Fn while pressing the key.)



from: http://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT204436

regards,

Martin.

posted: 17 Jan 2016 12:21

from:

Gordon S
 
 

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Thanks Martin. Option 4 doesn't appear in the Keyboard tab. It might be because I use a wireless keyboard from Logitech. No problem I can cope with the Fn key....:thumb:

posted: 31 Jan 2016 11:27

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Hi Gordon,

If you are still using the free trial version of CrossOver, you may like to know that Codeweavers are having another one-day special offer today:

24 hour FLASH SALE. Save 55% on CrossOver with code MYBONUS

Be sure to click more options on the ordering page (their support package won't be much help with Templot). 45% of £25 is £11.25

http://www.codeweavers.com/store

Enter code: MYBONUS.

Martin (no connection).




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