Templot Club Archive 2007-2020                             

topic: 1578American standards for 0 scale/gauge
author remove search highlighting
 
posted: 28 Jul 2011 22:50

from:

Glen Suckling
 
Oswego - New York USA

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Hi Martin, While you are preparing the current major revision to TEMPLOT would it be too much trouble to update the scale/gauge data that TEMPLOT uses for American O scale/gauge (NMRA-O)?

TEMPLOT currently lists NMRA-O as 9/32" per foot scale running on 11/4" gauge track. I know that there is a prototype for everthing and I am sure that somebody, somewhere is using  9/32" =1 foot scale on 11/4" gauge track but I do not know that person. My modelling aquaintances in America are not aware of that scale/gauge being used nor is 9/32" per foot scale referenced in the NMRA standards.

There are three commonly used standards for O scale/gauge modelling of standard gauge (4' 81/2") railroads in the USA. These three probably account for 99.9% of all of the O scale/gauge models built here. Each one is covered by an NMRA standard. They are:

PROTO 48 (NMRA S1.1) Commonly called P48, this standard uses a scale of 1/4" per foot running on 13/16" gauge track. P48 is the American equivalent of the British S7.

O (NMRA S1.2) Commonly called "O Scale", this standard uses a scale of 1/4" per foot running on 11/4" gauge track. "O Scale" is the American equivalent of the British GOG Fine Scale (GOG-F).

Odf (NMRA S1.3) The df stands for "deep flange". This is commonly called "High Rail" or "O Gauge". this standard also uses a scale of 1/4" per foot running on 11/4" gauge track, the main difference being the deeper and wider flangeways. "High Rail" is the American equivalent of the British GOG Coarse Scale (GOG-C).

I know that you have your hands full right now but this one has been bugging me for while.

Regards, Glen    

Last edited on 29 Jul 2011 01:44 by Glen Suckling
posted: 28 Jul 2011 23:46

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Glen Suckling wrote:
Hi Martin, While you are preparing the current major revision to TEMPLOT would it be too much trouble to update the scale/gauge data that TEMPLOT uses for American O scale/gauge (NMRA-O)?
Hi Glen,

I have already done so. This is the current list of 0 gauges and scales in TDV:

2_281828_250000000.png2_281828_250000000.png

I have renamed the 9/32"/ft scale as "US-OLD". It's in there because 13 years ago when I was compiling the list I found it listed in an old model railroading book, including some pictures of such models. I will look out the book and post some scans.

I hope this list now includes all the common 0 scales and gauges -- more of them than for any other scale.

The list still includes American 00:  00-NMRA, gauge 0.750", scale 5/32"/ft. I hope that is still ok?

The NMRA changed all the dimensions not long ago, so keeping up to date from this side of the pond is not so easy. :)

regards,

Martin.

posted: 29 Jul 2011 01:43

from:

Glen Suckling
 
Oswego - New York USA

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Martin Wynne wrote:
I have already done so. This is the current list of 0 gauges and scales in TDV:
Hi Martin,

Thank you. As usual you are a step ahead of me!

I think that the 5/32" 00 has probably gone the same way as the 9/32" 0 and the dinosaurs but you never know, there may still be some diehards out there who get enjoyment out of having to make everything from scratch. I enjoy scratch building but I like to pick my projects - there is not enough time to do everything yourself. Not if you ever want run anything.

Glen

posted: posted: 29 Jul 2011 07:04

from:

Jim Guthrie
 
United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Wasn't it called Q scale?   I remember reading about it many years ago - probably in the Model Railroader.   IIRC,  it was the US attempt to get a more accurate scale/gauge relationship in 0 scale but by keeping the gauge the same and changing the scale,  unlike the UK which keeps the scale the same and has a plethora of gauges. :)   As far as I remember,  the track and wheel standards were the same for 1/4" and 9/32" scales.

Jim.

29 Jul 2011 07:04

from:

Jim Guthrie
 
United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
I've just been doing a bit of Googling and found this web page which mentions Q scale

http://www.spikesys.com/Modelrr/scales.html

But I also note a mention of 17/64" scale on that page and I now think that I remember that as the accurate scale gauge relationship..

Jim.
Last edited on 29 Jul 2011 07:14 by Jim Guthrie
posted: 29 Jul 2011 08:22

from:

Alan Turner
 
Dudley - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides

Jim Guthrie wrote:
I've just been doing a bit of Googling and found this web page which mentions Q scale

http://www.spikesys.com/Modelrr/scales.html

But I also note a mention of 17/64" scale on that page and I now think that I remember that as the accurate scale gauge relationship..

Jim.


Interesting. Q scale appears to be Continental "0" Gauge.

Alan

posted: 29 Jul 2011 08:36

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Jim Guthrie wrote:
Wasn't it called Q scale?
Hi Jim,

Thanks for the link. An amazing list. :)

My understanding is/was that Q scale refers to European 1:45 models on 32mm gauge. The whole thing is a minefield. :(

It's an odd situation because it is usual and sensible for RTR models to run on an underscale track gauge. This makes room for overscale running gear within a scale-width model. But 1/4" scale on 1.25" track gauge is significantly overscale in gauge. This must make it very difficult to build accurate scale models.

And it's strange because the dominant US scale is H0 (Half-0) at 3.5mm/ft but they don't have a corresponding 0 scale for it to be half of.

Here in the UK we have exactly that in 7mm scale -- but no mainstream Half-0 modelling. :?

regards,

Martin.

posted: 29 Jul 2011 10:25

from:

Alan Turner
 
Dudley - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Very interesting. it appears that American "0" gauge seems to be 1:48 running on UK "0" gauge track?


Well within 0.25mm.


Alan

Last edited on 29 Jul 2011 10:27 by Alan Turner
posted: 29 Jul 2011 14:12

from:

Glen Suckling
 
Oswego - New York USA

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Alan Turner wrote:
Very interesting. it appears that American "0" gauge seems to be 1:48 running on UK "0" gauge track?

Well within 0.25mm.

I actually do run1:48 on 32mm track and 1:43.5 on 1.25in track.

The scenic part of my layout is built to GOG-F standards using code 125 BH rail while the fiddle yard and a long tunnel are built to NMRA O standards using code 148 FB rail. My rolling stock is a mixture of UK and American (usually one nationality at a time, but I have been known to mix them up!).

I find that if I am careful with the check gauge and get the back to back correct the rolling stock really does not care about the quarter of millimeter difference in in the track gauge.

Glen

posted: 29 Jul 2011 15:35

from:

Nigel Brown
 
 

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Martin Wynne wrote:
But 1/4" scale on 1.25" track gauge is significantly overscale in gauge. This must make it very difficult to build accurate scale models.
Remember reading somewhere that it arose out of the notion that an overscale gauge would give more reliable running for toy trains. Having things work was more important than appearance.

Nigel

posted: 5 Aug 2014 06:45

from:

Peter Wright
 
 

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Does anyone in the ‘States (or UK) make track gauges for P48? I’ve been looking for the last couple of years....

Best, Pete.

posted: 5 Aug 2014 08:27

from:

Matt M.
 
Australia

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Hi Peter,

Your request rang a bell. During research on model track standards I visited
the 'Proto48 Modeler' website.

http://www.proto48.org/p48_suppliers.htm

On the suppliers page there are two listed names that apparently
do jigs and gauges. A gentleman by the name of James Canter and
Paul Martineau trading under NCO Shops.

Worth a try maybe?

Regards, Matt M.

posted: 5 Aug 2014 12:07

from:

Simon Dunkley
 
Oakham - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Best bet is probably Protocraft (protocraft.com).

Hope that helps,

Simon

posted: 5 Aug 2014 15:11

from:

Simon Dunkley
 
Oakham - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Nigel Brown wrote:
Martin Wynne wrote:
But 1/4" scale on 1.25" track gauge is significantly overscale in gauge. This must make it very difficult to build accurate scale models.
Remember reading somewhere that it arose out of the notion that an overscale gauge would give more reliable running for toy trains. Having things work was more important than appearance.

Nigel
Originally the toy manufacturers measured the gauge between the centres of the rails (I have reproduction Bing catalogue from 1912) and the production methods of the time produced rail with a head width of approximately 1/16". Viewd that way, the gauge matches the scale very well.
Unfortunately,  when someone else came along who knew how it should be measured, no one told them how 1.25" was being measured (I.e. incorrectly! ) so it all went to pot - model track standards of the era were somewhat accommodating,  so no great hardship. 
I presume that at some point a few calculations were performed, and 7mm came out as the nearest whole number on the metric scale. (Metric being viewed as more scientific/engineering-y at the time.) The sensible and logical (and scientific/wnginerring!) approach is to define your scale ratio and set the gauge from that. After all,  that's what we do for all of the other dimensions!
(The best alternative is to make aure the distance over the outside faces of the whwels is to scale and to derive everything else backwards from that. Proto:whatever suddenly seems easier!)
So, American 0 has the right scale, but unfortunately the wrong gauge, due to ignorance in the first case and ignorance of the ignorance in the second! 
Incidentally,  00 is listed as 1" gauge. With the track used at the time, this would make it very close to modern S scale. 
Since "Pendon"/"Manchester"/Ultrascale wheels work perfectly with S, maybe 00 and EM modellers could consider changing scales to their wheel and track standards, and widen the gauge a bit... :)



Templot Club > Forums > I wish it would... > American standards for 0 scale/gauge
about Templot Club

Templot Companion - User Guide - A-Z Index Templot Explained for beginners Please click: important information for new members and first-time visitors.
indexing link for search engines

back to top of page


Please read this important note about copyright: Unless stated otherwise, all the files submitted to this web site are copyright and the property of the respective contributor. You are welcome to use them for your own personal non-commercial purposes, and in your messages on this web site. If you want to publish any of this material elsewhere or use it commercially, you must first obtain the owner's permission to do so.
The small print: All material submitted to this web site is the responsibility of the respective contributor. By submitting material to this web site you acknowledge that you accept full responsibility for the material submitted. The owner of this web site is not responsible for any content displayed here other than his own contributions. The owner of this web site may edit, modify or remove any content at any time without giving notice or reason. Problems with this web site? Contact webmaster@templot.com.   This web site uses cookies: click for information.  
© 2020  

Powered by UltraBB - © 2009 Data 1 Systems