Templot Club Archive 2007-2020
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posted: 24 Jun 2012 12:15 from: Martin Wynne
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posted by email:Martin |
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posted: 24 Jun 2012 12:39 from: Dave M
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Martin, As a newcomer to Templot early this year I'd like to compliment you on a superb (if developing) product. Yes, I spent many hours 'getting to grips' with the program and I still have a lot to learn but my experience so far has been extremely rewarding. Many thanks also to the fellow Templot users who have assisted with the development of the Torr Giffard trackplan so far. My Toshiba laptop with its Windows 7 operating system had no problems printing to my Hewlett Packard A3 Deskjet printer. Best regards Dave |
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posted: 24 Jun 2012 14:29 from: Paul Boyd
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Hi Martin I guess some people can't be bothered! I slightly resent the implication that the only people who can now use Templot are "nerds who like the challenge". That's a load of crap, to put it bluntly, quite apart from the fact that the new version is far less challenging than the old because of all the improvements that have been made. It's also easy enough to download and install the current version by simply following links - from opening the Templot.com home page, it was click, scroll down whilst reading the words, click and save. How much easier can you make it? There's even a bloody great note under the download link advising that an internet connection is needed when starting Templot each time. I don't suppose for one minute that Mr Shillito is reading this, but if you are, then of course you can go back to the old purchased version. Just re-install it, but I wonder if Martin will now feel inclined to let you have a new release key for your new laptop  It's reassuring to see posts like the one above from Dave M, and others in various places on this forum. It shows that Templot is perfectly usable if you're prepared to put the effort in. Those looking for instant results for no effort should look elsewhere. Cheers |
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posted: 24 Jun 2012 14:42 from: Brian Nicholls
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Hi Martin, I don’t wish to ‘glog’ up the forum with my input in response to Andrews comments, but if Andrew has neither the time or the patience to persevere with the new Templot2, then that’s his prerogative, and his great loss. Having accepted that Andrew Shillito, is entitled to his opinion, however, it appears his complaints are far from well founded, in fact to the contrary. As to some of his comments, it has been said many times that Templot2 is ‘light years’ ahead of it’s predecessors (the paid for versions) and I, for one, cannot understand why some people still want to continue using those versions. As to your website, well it goes without saying, that your site is one of the most stable and simple to use sites on the internet today. Also you are, by involving the members, trying to improve it even further for the benefit of all, I just wonder what is the real complaint that Andrew has here !! If being called a ‘nerd’ means I’m the type of person that takes there time to persevere and get things right and am never in an unnecessary rush, after all, I enjoy my hobby, and it’s nice to do things at one’s leisure when you are, shall we say, having fun (perhaps I am a nerd). However, I think Andrew has confused his metaphors here !! Regarding Andrew’s lap top, perhaps he should have been a little more prudent in his purchase, and taken his time a little, and decided to equip it with either Wi-Fi or satellite reception so that he would have been able to use it wherever he chooses. Martin, I had respond to the allegations put by Andrew, as support for an excellent and valuable tool to the railway modellers arsenal, and to say again, thank you for a first class and very impressive software program. I doubt, Andrew will even bother to read our comments, since it appears he has given up on your website!!! Please Martin do not let such unfounded comments get you down, and please ! please ! keep up the very good work. All the best, Brian Nicholls. |
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posted: 24 Jun 2012 15:23 from: Alan McMillan
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Hi Martin I wholeheartedly agree with Brian and Paul here. Templot is a masterpiece of software programming and is peerless in what it does. Also your website has nothing wrong with it at all. I get thoroughly cheesed off when I hear people like Mr Shillito moaning about Templot being difficult to use and complaining as if they expected the software to be as easily learnt as the two times table. It does take a bit of time to get to grips with it but the rewards are great when you do...and it's not THAT difficult really! Getting into the depths of MS Word is, for my money, MUCH harder. Mr Shillito's remark of "...after faffing about I give up [and] I really cannot be bothered" tells you everything you need to know about how much he actually wanted to succeed. Keep up the good work Martin...you are greatly appreciated despite these occasional voices of dissent. Regards Alan McMillan |
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posted: 24 Jun 2012 16:07 from: Martin Wynne
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I'm not too concerned that Andrew doesn't like Templot2 or the web site. You can't hope to please everyone and I'm only too aware of the many deficiencies myself. What really annoyed me is that he posted his message BY EMAIL. I've asked time and again for folks not to do that, and there is a note to that effect in every single message from Templot Club. I was sorely tempted to simply delete it, but then of course there would be a complaint that I'm censoring critical messages on here. Anyone can write whatever they wish here -- BUT NOT BY EMAIL. Martin. |
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posted: 24 Jun 2012 16:47 from: Paul Boyd
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Hi Martin Can you not simply remove any contact email addresses from the websites? You've done that for templot.com, so why not here as well? Has anyone ever actually contacted you by email with a problem about the website itself? I would have that if there was a problem, it would be with the user's computer or internet connection and not the site - it even works, after a fashion, with Chrome  I know this won't stop people who already know your email addresses, but it would be a start! |
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posted: 24 Jun 2012 16:52 from: Nigel Brown click the date to link to this post click member name to view archived images |
As one who knows Andrew through the 3mm Society, I should point out that he is a long standing user of Templot, has taken the trouble to get to grips with it, isn't one of those who overload this site with complaints about things they haven't seriously tried, and pretty obviously wishes to continue to use the product which he thinks quite highly of. Moreover, he has been known to promote the virtues of Templot to others, and indeed wrote an article for Mixed Traffic, the 3mm Society quarterly magazine, doing precisely that. The specific things which have irritated him, as should be quite clear to anyone taking the trouble to read his message, are the need to connect to the internet each time Templot is used, the need to download a new version as soon as it becomes available, and what he perceives as the less than clear path for doing so. To people who simply want to continue to use the program as they always have, these are not unreasonable viewpoints, which the fact that Martin has reasons for adopting this approach don't negate. So I suggest that rather than huff and puff at a message which represents the honest experience of one user, people should think constructively about the issues raised. Cheers Nigel |
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| Last edited on 24 Jun 2012 16:54 by Nigel Brown |
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posted: 24 Jun 2012 17:11 from: Dave M
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If he had voiced his issues "CONSTRUCTIVELY' and via the right channel....they might! Nigel Brown wrote: As one who knows Andrew through the 3mm Society, I should point out that he is a long standing user of Templot, has taken the trouble to get to grips with it, isn't one of those who overload this site with complaints about things they haven't seriously tried, and pretty obviously wishes to continue to use the product which he thinks quite highly of. Moreover, he has been known to promote the virtues of Templot to others, and indeed wrote an article for Mixed Traffic, the 3mm Society quarterly magazine, doing precisely that. |
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posted: 24 Jun 2012 17:29 from: dave turner
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All for what it's worth Many years ago I learnt how to use pen and paper to draught designs (some of which are still in existence for all to see and complain about albeit thankfully anonymously). Later I was involved with CAD in the early stages where I was able to program the system in use to automatically generate bespoke diagrams. To create a generic program "ain't" easy and Martin has done magnificently. I'm a user of Templot of some years and will not claim to be more than a fascinated dabbler. Nevertheless I've been able, with no prior knowledge, to create a number of designs far more quickly than would have been possible in any other way. Any problems I've had have been quickly addressed either by Martin himself or by other members. Long live Templot |
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posted: 24 Jun 2012 17:33 from: Martin Wynne
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Paul Boyd wrote: Can you not simply remove any contact email addresses from the websites? You've done that for templot.com, so why not here as well?Hi Paul, He received an email notification from Templot Club and then clicked Reply in his email program. When someone does that it ends up in my inbox. I then have to decide what to do about it. The normal courtesy is always to reply to emails and I'm very sorry, but I just CAN'T. PLEASE DO NOT SEND ME EMAILS BY ANY MEANS. Here is clause 11 in the Templot2 Terms of Use which everyone agrees on installing it: 11. You agree that in the event that you need help in using Templot2 software you will not contact Martin Wynne directly by letter, telephone, email, private message or any other means, and that you will use only the public web support facilities provided for users of Templot2 software.regards, Martin. |
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posted: 24 Jun 2012 17:49 from: Martin Wynne
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Nigel Brown wrote: As one who knows Andrew through the 3mm Society, I should point out that he is a long standing user of Templot, has taken the trouble to get to grips with it, isn't one of those who overload this site with complaints about things they haven't seriously tried, and pretty obviously wishes to continue to use the product which he thinks quite highly of. Moreover, he has been known to promote the virtues of Templot to others, and indeed wrote an article for Mixed Traffic, the 3mm Society quarterly magazine, doing precisely that.Hi Nigel, I know Andrew is a long time Templot user and I understand the points he is making. I suspect that they are shared by many others. My complaint is that they appeared in my personal email inbox instead of on here. I simply WILL NOT be contacted directly about Templot2. The whole and entire reason for making Templot free was to avoid that happening, and if it goes on I shall have to close the whole thing down. regards, Martin. |
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posted: 24 Jun 2012 17:59 from: Nigel Brown click the date to link to this post click member name to view archived images |
Dave M wrote: If he had voiced his issues "CONSTRUCTIVELY' and via the right channel....they might!Dave I don't see what wasn't constructive about the issues; it was a pretty straightforward account of what he as a Templot user found frustrating about the current setup. Also, remember that this wasn't intended as a public bashing of Templot. Cheers Nigel |
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posted: 24 Jun 2012 18:14 from: Dave M
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Nigel, .....using emotional/negative terminology such as "faffing", "can't be bothered" and describing those that have persevered with a program of otherwise great merit as "nerds" is unlikely to be seen as constructive. Templot is a fantastic facility appreciated by a great number of people....we don't need to jeopardise it by not following straightforward etiquette. Regards Dave |
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posted: 24 Jun 2012 18:18 from: mike47j click the date to link to this post click member name to view archived images |
I think there are 2 problems here: 1. For 99% of emails, hitting reply is the way to work. This is the only site I know that works this way. Can't it be configured so that either it works properly, or automatically sends a warning to the sender, or doesn't work at all. The current system seems to be a very bad idea. 2. The change to needing an internet conection in order to start the program is a big problem for some users and I suspect is the reason for the start of this thread. Mike Johnson |
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posted: 24 Jun 2012 18:32 from: Paul Boyd
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As one who knows Andrew through the 3mm Society, I should point out that he is a long standing user of Templot...Nigel, you have some prior knowledge that the rest of us don't, so perhaps you should forget that and read the message as it was presented and not based on your own personal experience of Mr Shillito's Templot usage and knowledge. For the rest of us, we have to take the message at face value, which basically complained about the internet connection at startup (something that is advised very clearly when you download it.) My own feelings about the need to connect to the internet each time have been presented previously, and if you've seen that then you'll know that whilst I fully understood and accepted the reasons for doing that whilst we were helping Martin with TDV, I disagree with it for a release version. However, as Martin has pointed out, those are the terms and we take them or leave them. I choose to take them. One of my reasons for not liking this connection is exactly the sort of situation the Andrew Shillito finds himself in, so I agree with his complaint in principle. The difference is that I've brought it up on Templot Club and not by an email to Martin - that's because I read the instructions! Cheers |
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posted: 24 Jun 2012 18:35 from: Martin Wynne
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mike47j wrote: For 99% of emails, hitting reply is the way to work.Hi Mike, Not for web forum notification emails it isn't. The usual format is that they include a clickable link to the web site in order to reply, and Templot Club is exactly the same -- even adding a request not to use any other means. I'm going to change the settings so that replying to emails from Templot Club always generates an error message auto-response. That could cause problems for those with a genuine login problem, which is why I haven't done it before. regards, Martin. |
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posted: 24 Jun 2012 18:40 from: Paul Boyd
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Hi MartinHe received an email notification from Templot Club and then clicked Reply in his email program.As - I see! And you can't really block emails from forum@templot.com if you want the notifications. Is there any way of detecting in an email header that an email to forum@templot.com is actually a reply to an email, and doesn't originate from the forum itself? If so, you could just block them. Not really my field though, so I may be talking nonsense! |
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posted: 24 Jun 2012 21:12 from: Martin Wynne
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Anyone sending an email to forum@templot.com should now get this in reply:Your email reply to the Templot Club user forum will not be sent.Martin. |
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posted: 24 Jun 2012 22:02 from: John Walker
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Martin Wynne wrote: Anyone sending an email to forum@templot.com should now get this in reply:Hello Martin I prefer to get Templot email from Yahoo Groups but I have gone to Templot Club for this response. Does your rule imply that I should not reply to messages from Yahoo Groups but only respond as I have done here? As to Andrew's problem, is it not the case that if he were to set Windows to hibernate rather than shut down then he can continue to use Templot offline until he has access to the internet again? Would you believe I will see Andrew on Wednesday at one of our 3mm Grumbly meetings! I will, no doubt, see what he has to say. Regards, and keep up the good work John Walker |
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posted: 24 Jun 2012 22:14 from: Martin Wynne
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Hi John,I prefer to get Templot email from Yahoo Groups but I have gone to Templot Club for this response. Does your rule imply that I should not reply to messages from Yahoo Groups but only respond as I have done here?Yes. It is clearly explained in the emails that the way to reply is to click the link given for the purpose. Sending a Reply email won't work in any circumstance. As to Andrew's problem, is it not the case that if he were to set Windows to hibernate rather than shut down then he can continue to use Templot offline until he has access to the internet again?Yes. That's why I have not been too sympathetic to the complaints. It is of course necessary to remember to start Templot while you have internet access, and only then use Hibernate without quitting Templot. Would you believe I will see Andrew on Wednesday at one of our 3mm Grumbly meetings! I will, no doubt, see what he has to say.Thanks. Perhaps you could explain to him about using Hibernate.  regards, Martin. |
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posted: 24 Jun 2012 23:30 from: Ian Allen
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Woohoo, I've progressed from anorak to nerd ! Lol Keep up the great work Martin, full support for you from me. Ian |
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posted: 25 Jun 2012 00:00 from: Nigel Brown click the date to link to this post click member name to view archived images |
Paul Boyd wrote:Hi PaulAs one who knows Andrew through the 3mm Society, I should point out that he is a long standing user of Templot...Nigel, you have some prior knowledge that the rest of us don't, so perhaps you should forget that and read the message as it was presented and not based on your own personal experience of Mr Shillito's Templot usage and knowledge. I don't think I added anything which couldn't be gleaned from the message, except to point out that Andrew has not only promoted the use of Templot but has written an article on it. I actually have no particular knowledge of Andrew's use of Templot. However, I thought the fact that he has not only designed 4 layouts in Templot but has actually built them probably puts him amongst a very select few Templot users! Cheers Nigel |
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posted: 25 Jun 2012 08:05 from: Jim Guthrie
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Nigel Brown wrote: I don't think I added anything which couldn't be gleaned from the message, except to point out that Andrew has not only promoted the use of Templot but has written an article on it. I actually have no particular knowledge of Andrew's use of Templot. However, I thought the fact that he has not only designed 4 layouts in Templot but has actually built them probably puts him amongst a very select few Templot users!Nigel, In that case I wonder why Andrew was not aware of the discussion on this forum on the very topic of the necessity of web access. All the pros and cons were raised and work rounds, like the use of Hibernate, were explored. His email gives the impression that he hasn't been across the Templot development scene on this forum for quite a while and he could have done a bit of topic searching to see what the situation was. I've also had a look at the download page on the Templot site and it spells out the conditions of usage in plain English. I'm not sure how you could re-write it to make it any better. Jim. |
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posted: 25 Jun 2012 08:25 from: Alan McMillan
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Martin Wynne wrote: I was sorely tempted to simply delete it, but then of course there would be a complaint that I'm censoring critical messages on here.Hi Martin Maybe you should just make it plain in your sidebar about email that any messages sent in this way will be deleted out of hand and without consideration of their content. After all, it's not as if you've not given fair warning of your dissatisfaction with people who contact you in this way. Complaints in this regard would therefore be unjustified. Regards Alan |
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posted: 25 Jun 2012 12:01 from: Nigel Brown click the date to link to this post click member name to view archived images |
Jim Guthrie wrote: Hi Jim I think the answer is, that there people quite happily using the version of Templot that they have, and have no interest whatsoever in following the forum discussions. Which is a perfectly reasonable thing for them to do. Cheers Nigel |
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posted: 25 Jun 2012 12:29 from: Martin Wynne
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Perhaps we can draw an end to the Andrew bashing? That wasn't the reason I posted his message here. My complaint was about his use of email to post it, not the content of his message. And since this is a new day, and I was clearly in a very grumpy mood yesterday, perhaps we can draw a line under that too? The sun is shining and I'm now going to forget about Templot for a few hours and do a bit of gardening. Martin. |
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posted: 25 Jun 2012 12:32 from: frisby
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Hi Martin, It struck me that maybe Andrew deliberately sent it as an email to you rather than put a negative diatribe on the forum. Understand hibernate but does have issues due to battery life and the 'blue screen of death' or any other reason for a reboot! Off to France for a week and had hoped to take Templot' but campsite has not got wi-fi and I haven't got 'data' roaming. Fully understand the reason behind the check/upload option, but if there is no website access detected, is it possible for the system to go via a big warning screen and an 'I accept' box to the existing installed version? Obvioulsly if website detected then carry-on/update as normal. Usual thanks for an excellent program and support - when do you sleep? Andy |
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posted: 25 Jun 2012 12:47 from: Martin Wynne
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frisby wrote: It struck me that maybe Andrew deliberately sent it as an email to you rather than put a negative diatribe on the forum.Hi Andy, Andrew didn't send it to me as an email. He used email to reply to a topic on here -- it was intended to appear on the forum. The hibernate function is the same as turning your computer off. It doesn't use any battery power. You can leave it for months in that state if you wish. regards, Martin. |
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posted: 25 Jun 2012 14:06 from: Ian Allen
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Martin Wynne wrote:The sun is shining and I'm now going to forget about Templot for a few hours and do a bit of gardening. Don't forget the long cool drink too Martin Ian |
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posted: 26 Jun 2012 07:33 from: richard_t
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Martin Wynne wrote:The hibernate function is the same as turning your computer off. It doesn't use any battery power. You can leave it for months in that state if you wish. If it's Windows 7 be careful of your Windows update settings, as I've had those wake up a hibernating computer, install the updates and restart. I come down in the morning to find the computer has been on since 3am in the morning! Appt. MS Security Essentials will do the same when it gets virus updates (although I guess without the reboot!) Richard. |
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posted: 26 Jun 2012 09:52 from: Martin Wynne
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richard_t wrote:If it's Windows 7 be careful of your Windows update settings, as I've had those wake up a hibernating computer, install the updates and restart. I come down in the morning to find the computer has been on since 3am in the morning! Appt. MS Security Essentials will do the same when it gets virus updates (although I guess without the reboot!)Hi Richard, I think you must mean a computer in Sleep/Stand-By mode. In Hibernation mode the computer is physically switched off. Without power there is no way it can respond to any timer settings, internet signals or virus updates. It's dead stone cold. You can unplug it or remove the battery if you wish. Everything is restored from disk only when you switch it back on. It may then do updates, restarts etc., but only if it has an internet connection. In which case Templot2 would be able to run normally anyway. regards, Martin. |
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posted: 26 Jun 2012 11:24 from: Paul Boyd
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Hi MartinIn Hibernation mode the computer is physically switched off. Without power there is no way it can respond to any timer settings, internet signals or virus updates. It's dead stone cold. You can unplug it or remove the battery if you wish.That's not necessarily true. A computer doesn't have to be turned off when hibernated - in fact, I hibernate mine during the day in between sessions instead of turning it off, and I do mean hibernate, not sleep. It is true that you can then safely remove power, but you don't have to. Have a look here where it says "A program or scheduled task might be waking your computer. By default, Power Option settings do not allow scheduled tasks to wake the computer from sleep or hibernate." - and this default can be changed. Following the links around (still within the Microsoft website) comes up with "Wake from Remote Desktop TCP SYN is a way you can wake from RDP. If that pattern is enabled then a system in Standby/Hibernate will wake from the remote desktop connection attempt." So, a laptop with a battery installed could be woken from hibernation if the settings have been altered either by the user or some third party software - the motherboard may still have standby power. I would think that the odds of having wake from hibernate enabled as well as automatically install updates and restart are pretty slim, but it could and apparently does happen! Cheers |
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posted: 26 Jun 2012 11:43 from: Martin Wynne
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Hi Paul, I'm puzzled. When I use Hibernate on my system, the power light goes out and the power supply is clearly switched off with the fan stopped. There is no voltage on the motherboard -- I just checked. The system is stone cold. I'm mystified how a system without power can respond to anything, or even receive a signal. I think these options to restart from Hibernate must mean in effect that Hibernate is cancelled and replaced with a Sleep/Stand-By mode. regards, Martin. |
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posted: 26 Jun 2012 12:11 from: Nigel Brown click the date to link to this post click member name to view archived images |
I'm not an expert on hibernate, but my understanding is that there is still power to the system, unless you turn the power switch at the back of the system off (desktop), or remove the battery (laptop). You can't turn a system on using the usual (pseudo) on/off switch unless there is already power to the system. Cheers Nigel |
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posted: 26 Jun 2012 13:00 from: Martin Wynne
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Nigel Brown wrote: You can't turn a system on using the usual (pseudo) on/off switch unless there is already power to the system.Hi Nigel, But that switch should be open-circuit to the power supply unit only: "To start up a stand alone PSU for testing purposes, you need to short the PS_ON pin to one of the common pins. Under normal operation, PS_ON is activated when you press and release the computer power button while the PSU is in standby mode." In any event, on my desktop system the result is clear. With the system in Hibernate mode and live power to the PSU, there is no voltage on the motherboard. So it is incapable of performing a Windows update or anything else. Laptops may be different, but if there was any actual power on the motherboard it would represent a load on the battery and negate the claimed advantage that a Hibernate state can last indefinitely and not use any battery power. We have wandered a bit off topic. regards, Martin. |
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posted: 26 Jun 2012 18:29 from: Paul Boyd
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Hi Martin Maybe off topic, but perhaps on safer ground I don't know about laptops, but desktop PCs always have 5V on the motherboard so long as the PSU has mains going into it (+5VSBY). My previous m/b had a green light to show this, and it stayed on in hibernate mode. I was always told (and manufacturers used to tell you) to remove mains from the PC before plugging anything into the PCI slots, for instance, because there's still power on the board. This +5VSBY feeds power control circuitry on the motherboard, and the power button tells this circuitry to turn on the power supply - things like Wake-on-LAN also run off this standby 5V and drive the power control circuit. My BIOS has settings to minimise this standby power consumption to less than 1W, but there's still power there. But like I said, I don't know how that translates into laptops! |
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posted: 26 Jun 2012 20:39 from: Martin Wynne
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Paul Boyd wrote:Maybe off topic, but perhaps on safer groundHi Paul, Hmm. My previous m/b had a green light to show this, and it stayed on in hibernate mode.Thanks for this. On my Win7 system there is a similar green led on the motherboard, but the operation seems to be different. When switched off or into Hibernate mode the led goes out, and presumably the SBY line drops to zero. I certainly can't find any voltage on the board when the led is out. When going into Sleep/Stand-By mode (yellow light in the power switch) the green led stays on, and presumably the SBY line remains at 5v. This appears to be logical. If you have a line called SBY you would expect it to be on in Stand-By mode. If it was intended to be on in Hibernate mode it would surely be called HIB instead? Whether all this is configurable in some power setting I've changed, I've no idea. A zillion Windows computers on the planet, and every single one appears to be slightly different. regards, Martin. |
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posted: 27 Jun 2012 10:36 from: Phil O
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A zillion Windows computers on the planet, and every single one appears to be slightly different.Back when I was on a computer course they loaded win 95 on to a dozen or so computers all of the same model on every one there were slight differences. Later my brother and I bought identical computers and both have slight variations on how the software works when installed. Cheers Phil |
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posted: 27 Jun 2012 13:22 from: Nigel Brown click the date to link to this post click member name to view archived images |
Seems its a complex business. This is what Wikipedia has to say about ACPI, which is what's relevant. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Configuration_and_Power_Interface May well be a BIOS setting which influences things. The difference between the usual use of "sleep" and "hibernate" (which is actually a form of sleep) is that with the latter RAM is copied to disc then the memory powered off. Doesn't mean other things are powered off. |
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posted: 27 Jun 2012 14:20 from: Martin Wynne
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Nigel Brown wrote:Doesn't mean other things are powered off.Hi Nigel, Well it should do if this extract from Wikipedia is to be believed, and if it doesn't it means the often made claim that Hibernation can last indefinitely without using any battery power is not true (my red): Uses of hibernation: Hibernation saves electrical power. After hibernating, the hardware is completely powered down (just like for a regular shutdown). Therefore a hibernated machine uses no more electrical power than one which is switched off. Meanwhile, hibernation is a means of avoiding the burden of saving unsaved data before shutting down and restoring all running programs after powering back on. Hibernation is used in laptops, which have limited battery power available. It can be set to happen automatically on a low battery alarm. Most desktops also support hibernation, mainly as a general energy saving measure. Comparison to sleep mode: Many systems also support a low-power sleep mode or stand by mode in which the processing functions of the machine are powered down, using a little power to preserve the contents of RAM and support waking up; wakeup is almost instantaneous. The advantage of sleep mode is that resuming is much quicker than for hibernation. A hibernated system must start up, then read back data to RAM on resuming, which typically takes about ten seconds or more. A system in sleep mode only needs to power up the CPU and display, which is almost instantaneous. On the other hand, a system in sleep mode still consumes some power, while a hibernated system does not require any power at all. A sleeping computer is a case of a device consuming standby power, covered by regulations in many countries limiting such power under the One Watt Initiative to one watt from 2010. Since these facilities were introduced, most systems have come to offer both sleep mode and hibernation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibernation_%28computing%29 It does seem an awfully complex subject. Which would be OK if you could get definitive information. But as usual, you can't. regards, Martin. |
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posted: 27 Jun 2012 14:21 from: John Shelley
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Phil O wrote: After a recent problem, a virus attack that corrupted all my files I had to have Windows XP reinstalled from scratch on the same PC and now I don't have the standby option, it's greyed out and when I turn the PC off I have to manually remove the power using the main on/off switch, it just sits there displaying "It is now safe to turn your computer off". Wierd or what.A zillion Windows computers on the planet, and every single one appears to be slightly different.Back when I was on a computer course they loaded win 95 on to a dozen or so computers all of the same model on every one there were slight differences. Cheers for now John form 33820, St Ciers sur Gironde, France |
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posted: 27 Jun 2012 18:00 from: Paul Boyd
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This is the great thing about standards - there's so many versions to choose from I've spent too long at work today battling with DXF/DWG so-called standards... Anyway, to satisfy my own curiosity, I'm going to stick a DMM onto my motherboard some time! |
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posted: 27 Jun 2012 20:23 from: Martin Wynne
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Paul Boyd wrote: This is the great thing about standards - there's so many versions to choose fromHi Paul, Try this Wikipedia article about Freeview HD . There will be a test later. Martin. |
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posted: 27 Jun 2012 22:31 from: John Lewis
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Paul wrote: This is the great thing about standards - there's so many versions to choose from Sounds like the LMS Black 5s. I was told no two were identical. :-) John |
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posted: 28 Jun 2012 09:38 from: Paul Boyd
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Hi MartinTry this Wikipedia article about Freeview HD .I knew there was a good reason why I don't have a television! Can I be excused the test on that basis please, sir??? |
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posted: 28 Jun 2012 10:03 from: John Walker
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Martin Wynne wrote: Thanks. Perhaps you could explain to him about using Hibernate.Hello Martin I explained to Andrew how to use hibernate yesterday. He had not heard of it before. Hopefully his problem will now be resolved and he will rejoin the fold. Regards John Walker |
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posted: 28 Jun 2012 10:54 from: Phil O
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Hi All I tried my laptop in hibernate last night, I won't say that it worked a treat as the battery light stayed lit all night, so it must have been sucking some power somewhere. will be unable to do further experimentation for a fortnight as I am about to deliver it to my niece prior to my going into hospital for an op on my ankle after which I shall be residing with her for a few days. Cheers Phil |
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posted: 28 Jun 2012 11:32 from: frisby
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John Shelley wrote: Phil O wrote:After a recent problem, a virus attack that corrupted all my files I had to have Windows XP reinstalled from scratch on the same PC and now I don't have the standby option, it's greyed out and when I turn the PC off I have to manually remove the power using the main on/off switch, it just sits there displaying "It is now safe to turn your computer off". Wierd or what.A zillion Windows computers on the planet, and every single one appears to be slightly different.Back when I was on a computer course they loaded win 95 on to a dozen or so computers all of the same model on every one there were slight differences. Hi John, Looks like you might need to reset your Power options but i am no Microsoft expert - Others on here have far greater knowledge! To set Hibernate - ControlPanel>Power Options Top right hand tab. You have to enable Hibernate - the default is off. The close down screen will then let you hibernate by pressing the shift key. (Note if you fo have insufficient free disk space it will advise you of this so you can create some )Did not know any of this and had assumed StandBy was hibernate Martin's prodding worked and I've learnt something. Andy |
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posted: 28 Jun 2012 11:37 from: frisby
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Phil O wrote: Hi All If the power lead was still connected and live then the battery light will stay lit. Power to the PC side is off though. The above works on my Dell anyway Andy |
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posted: 28 Jun 2012 11:50 from: John Shelley
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frisby wrote: I do not have a problem with hibernate and the option to do that is offered, what I can't get is Standby. When I select "Turn off the computer" I am offered Hibernate Turn Off Restart. Standby isn't mentioned. Cheers for now John from 33820 St Ciers sur Gironde, France |
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posted: 28 Jun 2012 13:59 from: Phil O
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If the power lead was still connected and live then the battery light will stay lit. Power to the PC side is off though. The above works on my Dell anywayThe Power is disconnected from the laptop. I know that all the time the mains is connected to the laptop that the battery light stays lit but I made sure everything was disconnected before going into hibernation. Now unable to do further experiments until reunited with the machine. Cheers Phil |
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