Templot Club Archive 2007-2020                             

topic: 2196First Slip Attempt
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posted: 13 Apr 2013 11:16

from:

Charles Orr
 
Leicester - United Kingdom

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Hi

I've had a go at building a slip- my first attempt.

It appears to be OK in the the middle but the moving blades at each end seem to be wrong.

I've used Martin's tutorial for this.

I would welcome advice as to what I have done wrong and how to correct it.

Many thanks

Regards

Charles
Attachment: attach_1582_2196_Slip_Try1_2013_04_13_1110_05.box     343

posted: 13 Apr 2013 12:14

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Hi Charles,

Nearly there. :)

You have the curving through the slip switches going the wrong way. Try this:

1. delete the slip road.

2. delete one switch to the control.

3. put the peg on CTRL-0.

4. click geometry > invert curving menu item.

Notice that the main-side stock rail in the switch now aligns with the diamond rail.

5. store & background (INSERT key, or top orange tool-button).

6. delete the other switch to the control.

7. put the peg on CTRL-0.

8. click geometry > invert curving menu item.

9. click tools > make slip road menu item.

Adjust it to fit as before.

(p.s. instead of 5 and 6, in Templot2 you can click make the control on the second switch which will do 5 for you).

regards,

Martin.

posted: 14 Apr 2013 10:25

from:

Charles Orr
 
Leicester - United Kingdom

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Thank you Martin.

I've done what you said (I think) but the result still looks a little strange. :?

I've attached the second attempt. I wonder what has gone wrong this time?

Retirement beckons in July and I then intend to start building the magnum opus I have been planning for the last 10 years . :)

I will then be able to dedicate much more time to Templot , which is clearly necessary, so you can expect many more posts from me.

Best regards

Charles

 
Attachment: attach_1585_2196_Slip_Try2.box     308

posted: 14 Apr 2013 11:09

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Hi Charles,

It looks fine to me. :?  What do you think is wrong?

You have the usual problem in 00 of the slip road conflicting with the K-crossing check rail, which will need to be shortened accordingly -- real > adjust check rails menu item.

That is just one of the penalties of using 00 gauge. There is some discussion about this, and ways of easing the problem here:

topic 324

regards,

Martin.

posted: 14 Apr 2013 12:05

from:

Charles Orr
 
Leicester - United Kingdom

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Thanks again Martin.

I've selected moveable K crossings and as you indicated in the reference, this has got rid of the check rail problem.

I intend to use to use servo motors to drive the slip.  Where would you suggest attaching the tie bars to operate the K crossings?

One last question.:) 

How would I turn this into a double slip?

Best regards

Charles
Attachment: attach_1586_2196_Slip_Try4.box     301

posted: 14 Apr 2013 23:50

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Charles Orr wrote:
I intend to use to use servo motors to drive the slip.  Where would you suggest attaching the tie bars to operate the K crossings?

One last question.:) 

How would I turn this into a double slip?
Hi Charles,

Bullhead switch-diamonds usually have a single wide timber at the centre, carrying both sets of points (blade tips). The drive stretchers would usually be located on each side of the central timber.

The switches always work together in opposition, so you can save some motor cost by arranging a rocking crank from a single motor. :)

To make a double slip, simply repeat the process of adding a slip road, swapping the TCP and MCP positions for the additional slip switches. Also change the half-diamond settings for shortened check rails and extended timbers to those for a double slip. If you do any customizing, make sure the slip switches are far enough from the V-crossing to allow room for both points (blade tips) to stand open between the wing rail fronts at the same time. They normally move over together, but may need to be both open during testing and maintenance.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 15 Apr 2013 07:47

from:

Stephen Freeman
 
Sandbach - United Kingdom

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Martin Wynne wrote:
Charles Orr wrote:
I intend to use to use servo motors to drive the slip.  Where would you suggest attaching the tie bars to operate the K crossings?

One last question.:) 

How would I turn this into a double slip?
Hi Charles,

Bullhead switch-diamonds usually have a single wide timber at the centre, carrying both sets of points (blade tips). The drive stretchers would usually be located on each side of the central timber.

The switches always work together in opposition, so you can save some motor cost by arranging a rocking crank from a single motor. :)

To make a double slip, simply repeat the process of adding a slip road, swapping the TCP and MCP positions for the additional slip switches. Also change the half-diamond settings for shortened check rails and extended timbers to those for a double slip. If you do any customizing, make sure the slip switches are far enough from the V-crossing to allow room for both points (blade tips) to stand open between the wing rail fronts at the same time. They normally move over together, but may need to be both open during testing and maintenance.

regards,

Martin.
Hi,

I've done it for you. If you want to see a picture of a switched double-slip, I did one last year in 7mm scale (0-MF to be precise) and you can see it on my website before the tiebars were fitted.
Attachment: attach_1587_2196_market_street_2013_04_15_0742_27.box     352

posted: 15 Apr 2013 12:55

from:

Charles Orr
 
Leicester - United Kingdom

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Thanks very much indeed Martin.

Stephen

Thank you for providing the double slip.

I'll see whether I can build one myself now :?

Best regards

Charles

posted: 18 Apr 2013 08:37

from:

Charles Orr
 
Leicester - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin

I've produced this double C10 slip.

It looks OK but I'm not certain about the switch blades. :?

Would this be buildable?

Best regards

Charles
Attachment: attach_1590_2196_Double_Slip_C10.box     317

posted: 18 Apr 2013 09:36

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Hi Charles,

It looks fine to me. Well done. :)

You have 3.3mm between the wing rail fronts at the switch points, allowing 1.6mm opening on each at the same time. That's enough for 00-SF, although normally 1.7mm is used (20p coin gauge).

Some thought will be needed about about the insulation gaps if you are building in copper-clad. In which case you might try moving the switches one timber space further from the V-crossings.

It's fine for plastic chairs, provided the switch points can't touch if both are open.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 18 Apr 2013 11:49

from:

Charles Orr
 
Leicester - United Kingdom

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Thank you Martin. :D

That praise has inspired me.

My previous concern for the switch blades  I have now attributed to the level of the template.

Am I correct in assuming that with overlaid partial templates, the higher number templates are printed on top of the lower ones?

This would mean (I think) that to see the correct switch layout, the switch templates need to be higher numbered than than the half diamond templates.

Hope this makes sense.

What would be the best way of moving the switches?

Make the control

Put peg on datum (Ctrl 0)

Slide through peg (Shift F9)

or Snake through peg (Ctrl F6)

Restore and background

Best regards

Charles

posted: 18 Apr 2013 12:43

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Charles Orr wrote:
Am I correct in assuming that with overlaid partial templates, the higher number templates are printed on top of the lower ones?

This would mean (I think) that to see the correct switch layout, the switch templates need to be higher numbered than than the half diamond templates.
Hi Charles.

Yes. There is a note about this in the slip tutorial. For the switch blade rail-edges and planing marks to be correctly shown on the printed templates it is important that the overlaid switch templates have higher numbers in the storage box list than the underlying half-diamond templates.

To achieve this you can either:

a) delete each switch in turn to the control template and then store it again, or

b) in the storage box, show box list and then change the list order using the brown up/down arrow buttons. Move the half-diamonds to positions in the list above all the switches.

Alternatively, for a perfect result the half-diamond templates can be split into further partial templates, with the rails omitted where there are overlaid switches. In that case the order of templates doesn't matter, but it's a lot of work for a minor improvement. 

What would be the best way of moving the switches?
Make the control
Put peg on datum (Ctrl 0)
Slide through peg (Shift F9)
or Snake through peg (Ctrl F6)
Restore and background
It's usually better to use snake (CTRL-F6 or 6), and in that case there is no need to put the peg on CTRL-0 first, Templot will move the peg to the main road centre-line for you.

Or try orbit (CTRL-F5 or 5), in which case you don't need to think about the peg. (Orbit works even on straight track.)

(Note that for a transition curve or slewed template, orbit, snake and slide each produce different results, even if the peg is on CTRL-0.)

In fact you have found a bug -- slide (SHIFT-F9) is not working properly with the slip switches if the peg remains in its original position on the end of planing. Thanks for that -- I will get it fixed for the next update. :thumb:

regards,

Martin.

posted: 18 Apr 2013 13:05

from:

Charles Orr
 
Leicester - United Kingdom

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Wonderful. :)

I've used orbit here.

Does this look OK? I've moved the switches one sleeper down.

Best regards

Charles
Attachment: attach_1591_2196_Slip_C10_3.box     285

posted: 18 Apr 2013 13:21

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Charles Orr wrote:
Does this look OK? I've moved the switches one sleeper timber down.
Hi Charles,

After moving the switches you need to re-do the slip roads to align with them.

tools > make slip road on two of the switches.

p.s. they are called timbers (12" wide, varying lengths). Sleepers are in plain track (10" wide, 8ft-6in length). :)

regards,

Martin.

posted: 18 Apr 2013 13:44

from:

Charles Orr
 
Leicester - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin

Sorry about about my incorrect use of terminology.:(

I could see some discontinuities (bumps :D) in the rails.

I'll delete the existing slip roads and redo them.

Many thanks

Charles

posted: 18 Apr 2013 16:49

from:

Charles Orr
 
Leicester - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin

I think that this is the build candidate.

What do you think?

Best regards

Charles
Attachment: attach_1592_2196_Slip_C10_Final.box     303

posted: 18 Apr 2013 18:10

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Hi Charles,

Looking good. :)

Strictly speaking, you didn't move the switches quite far enough, so that the switch points (blade tips) are not fully supported on the timber:

2_181259_070000000.png2_181259_070000000.png

The points should be supported on the slide chair, which in turn must be fixed to the timber, so in practice the middle points (blade tips) need to be about 2" inside the outer edge of the timber. The outer points will be a little further back because of the equalizing angle of the timber.

To avoid re-doing all the rails, you could instead widen that timber to 14" and move it by about 1" using the shove timber functions. Unless you have a specific prototype dictating otherwise? Even if you have, it will be impossible to replicate it fully in 00 gauge. :)

regards,

Martin.

posted: 18 Apr 2013 18:29

from:

Charles Orr
 
Leicester - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin

I have no specific prototype, I just wanted to create the slip in Templot and then build it twice.

I'm going to use copper clad timbers for the first build and then C & L plastic timbers and chairs for the second.

I've built quite a lot of copper clad turnouts  for my first trial layout, but as I said before, my Magnum Opus will take much longer to realise and use more complicated trackwork.

I have not yet decided whether to go the copper clad route or the plastic chair route.

C & L  have a much larger selection of chairs available since the merge with Exactoscale.

I will readjust the switches and then commence the build. :D

I'll try and document it as I proceed and upload some pictures.

Many thanks for all your help, I will submit Build Candidate (revised) before I start.

Best regards

Charles

posted: 9 Aug 2013 12:41

from:

Charles Orr
 
Leicester - United Kingdom

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Hi

I'm about to start building my first slip in 00 SF.

I would be very grateful for any advice relating to the sequence of build.

I'm sure someone has already described this.

Best regards

Charles

 

posted: 9 Aug 2013 13:20

from:

Stephen Freeman
 
Sandbach - United Kingdom

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Hi,
basically build from the middle out, starting with the common crossings.
Charles Orr wrote:
Hi

I'm about to start building my first slip in 00 SF.

I would be very grateful for any advice relating to the sequence of build.

I'm sure someone has already described this.

Best regards

Charles

 




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