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topic: 2393First try
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posted: 28 Jan 2014 12:42

from:

Graham Idle
 
Redhill, Surrey - United Kingdom

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Hi,
This is my first try at a layout to fit in the small space that I have. It is a copy of 'Elan', a trackplan from Ian Rice's book 'Layout Design, Finescale in Small Spaces'. I have used, for me, the easiest method of lay the trackwork. I had some problems with the single slip, but using Brian Nicholls excellent instructions, I have cobbled together something that fits in the space. I would appreciate any comments as to whether it is buildable and run able. I will be using 0-6-0 tank and tender locos.
Regards, Graham
Attachment: attach_1728_2393_elan_2014_01_25_1449_03.box     428

posted: 28 Jan 2014 12:44

from:

Graham Idle
 
Redhill, Surrey - United Kingdom

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Here is the background.
Attachment: attach_1729_2393_elan_14_01_25_1437_41.bgs     382

posted: 28 Jan 2014 14:04

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Hi Graham,

Thanks for uploading your files. :)

You also need to upload the .sk81 image file from the \SHAPE-FILES\ folder. Otherwise the background shapes show a picture shape as a blank rectangle.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 28 Jan 2014 14:45

from:

Graham Idle
 
Redhill, Surrey - United Kingdom

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Here's the sk81 file.
Attachment: attach_1731_2393_elan_14_01_25_1437_41.sk81     1690

posted: 28 Jan 2014 19:35

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Hi Graham,

Looking good.

The diamond will be about 1:4.7 so will have to be an outside slip -- a nice impressive bit of trackwork at the centre of this small layout. :)

To that end, I moved the loop track a little lower, to make room for the far slip switch. This also gives you a bit more run-round clearance in the loop:

2_281430_470000000.png2_281430_470000000.png

regards,

Martin.

posted: 28 Jan 2014 20:22

from:

Graham Idle
 
Redhill, Surrey - United Kingdom

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Many thanks, Martin. I thought that it all might be a bit tight. I'm at work tonight but will get a good look at it tomorrow.
Regards, Graham

posted: 29 Jan 2014 12:32

from:

Graham Idle
 
Redhill, Surrey - United Kingdom

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I think I had a senior moment. I posted the wrong box file. it should have been my finished rough, showing the slip. I was hoping for comments on whether that was OK.
Regards, Graham
Attachment: attach_1732_2393_Elan_Final.box     347

posted: 29 Jan 2014 12:54

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Hi Graham,

Your diamond is about 1:5, which is generally too short for a conventional inside slip. The switch blades will be too short to flex, and would need to be built as loose heels. And the slip road radius is only 27" which is a bit too small for P4 unless purely an industrial line:

2_290750_120000000.png2_290750_120000000.png

That's why I suggested building it as an outside slip instead. To do that you need to move the loop track a little wider to make room for the slip switch.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 29 Jan 2014 13:44

from:

Paul Boyd
 
Loughborough - United Kingdom

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Hi Graham

I've previously Templotted this in P4, and like many of Mr Rice's plans, they can be challenging to make work!  Most of them can be done though.

I've attached a box file where you can see I'm still working on that slip.  As Martin says, it has to be an outside slip - there's no other way to do it - plus they're fun to build :D  The diamond is around 1:4.6 (irregular) and I've constructed it in an usual way using turnouts for the slip road for now, but that shows that the radius can be 43".  Both switches are GWR B.  There's still some work to do, and it took a fair bit of work to get that far to get nice radii, but it can be done!

Hope this is of use!
Attachment: attach_1733_2393_llanastr_mawr_2013_07_14_2002_03.box     370

posted: 30 Jan 2014 11:10

from:

Graham Idle
 
Redhill, Surrey - United Kingdom

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Thanks for the infor Martin. I thought this would be a problem, but know too little about trackwork formations to get round it. Do I construct a single slip, but place the switches outside the crossing?
Regards, Graham
Martin Wynne wrote:
Hi Graham,

Your diamond is about 1:5, which is generally too short for a conventional inside slip. The switch blades will be too short to flex, and would need to be built as loose heels. And the slip road radius is only 27" which is a bit too small for P4 unless purely an industrial line:

2_290750_120000000.png2_290750_120000000.png

That's why I suggested building it as an outside slip instead. To do that you need to move the loop track a little wider to make room for the slip switch.

regards,

Martin.


posted: 30 Jan 2014 11:14

from:

Graham Idle
 
Redhill, Surrey - United Kingdom

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Hi Paul
Many thanks for the box file, I think I know were to go from here. Did you build this or was it an excercise, it's got potential for such a small space.
Regards, Graham

posted: 30 Jan 2014 13:15

from:

Paul Boyd
 
Loughborough - United Kingdom

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Hi Graham

This particular one was just an exercise, although I have built a few of these slips.  I think they're easier to build than inside slips.  The latest build has been posted previously:-

105_020532_490000000.jpg105_020532_490000000.jpg
105_020527_450000000.png105_020527_450000000.png

posted: 30 Jan 2014 14:42

from:

Graham Idle
 
Redhill, Surrey - United Kingdom

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That's very nice Paul. I hope that I can work out how to produce track work that good.
Regards, Graham

posted: 31 Jan 2014 23:17

from:

Graham Idle
 
Redhill, Surrey - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin,

I'm afraid I am stuck. Are there any videos or tutorials on how to make an outside slip? I have searched the forum but with little success. I tried moving my switches outside the crossover, but they kept snapping back to their original positions. I'm a bit lost.

Regards, Graham

posted: 1 Feb 2014 11:34

from:

Andrew Fendick
 
Andover - United Kingdom

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Hi Graham,
I hit the same problem with it snapping to the original position but found the menu item 'action > F7 snap options > snap on background templates'. It will have a tick mark beside it to show it is enabled. Click on the menu item to disable the snap.

Regards, Andrew

posted: 1 Feb 2014 12:17

from:

Graham Idle
 
Redhill, Surrey - United Kingdom

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Thanks, I didn't know about that. But, unfortunately, I am still no closer to creating my outside slip. :(

Regards,Graham

posted: 1 Feb 2014 12:37

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Andrew Fendick wrote:
I hit the same problem with it snapping to the original position but found the menu item 'action > F7 snap options > snap on background templates'. It will have a tick mark beside it to show it is enabled. Click on the menu item to disable the snap.
Hi Andrew,

Alternatively to prevent snapping, just hold down the SHIFT key while using the F7 mouse action.

More about these options: http://templot.com/martweb/f7_snap_demo.htm

regards,

Martin.

posted: 1 Feb 2014 12:46

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Graham Idle wrote:
unfortunately, I am still no closer to creating my outside slip. :(
Hi Graham,

I will try to reply soon. Currently I am preparing a reply for Trevor about tandem turnouts. Outside slips and tandems are the trickiest for beginners because there are so many variables, and you need to be familiar with using partial templates.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 1 Feb 2014 12:55

from:

Graham Idle
 
Redhill, Surrey - United Kingdom

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Thanks Martin. I'll wait for your instructions.

Regards,Graham

posted: 2 Feb 2014 12:55

from:

Brian Nicholls
 
Poole - United Kingdom

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Hi Graham,

I had a quick go at your plan, just before going to bed, and again this morning, I came up with the outside slip shown in the attached box file.

Now I am not sure if this is exactly what you wanted, but I must say, the slip switch and road, are very tight for space on the right-hand side of the diamond.

However, as I say, I came up with this.

Now the switch on the right of the diamond is similar to what you have used, i.e. a GWR ‘B’ type switch.

However, to get the slip road to flow nicely, I changed the switch on the left to a GWR ‘C’, which allowed the slip road to blend in without a ‘kink’ at the end of the planning.

I have adjusted the length of the two diamond check rails to in clued the 2nd Vee in each case.

I also shortened the wing rail tips of the second Vee’s on one side only to give more clearance to the running rail of the diamond.

I have colour marked and highlighted in RED, the switches and slip road and Vee’s I have added.

As you will see, the slip road rails just clear all the wing and check rails of the diamond.

There is still some tidying up to do, i.e. linking in your existing track work, but will leave that to you to do.

I have not removed any of your original templates form the box file, just simply added those I have generated to achieve the slip, so again there may be some tidying up in the storage box for you to do.

Hope this helps.

All the best,

Brian.

Attachment: attach_1738_2393_elan_Sample_A.box     302

posted: 2 Feb 2014 13:00

from:

Brian Nicholls
 
Poole - United Kingdom

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Sorry graham, sent the wrong box file see attacdhed correct file.

All the best,

Brian.
Attachment: attach_1740_2393_elan_Sample_A-2.box     316

posted: 2 Feb 2014 13:28

from:

Graham Idle
 
Redhill, Surrey - United Kingdom

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Hi Brian,

I,m indebted to you, now unstuck. I will now have to clear the space, build the baseboards and start on the track. I will start tidying the templates tomorrow. Once again, many thanks for your hard work.

Regards, Graham

posted: 2 Feb 2014 14:16

from:

Brian Nicholls
 
Poole - United Kingdom

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Hi Graham,

You are more than welcome, it was a pleasure to take on the challenge.

Good luck with the rest of the build.

All the best,

Brian.

posted: 20 Feb 2014 11:20

from:

Graham Idle
 
Redhill, Surrey - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin,

I know you are busy with lots of things at the moment, but have you had a chance to create a tutorial on outside slips? I had an excellant reply from Brian Nicholls but need to move the slip a bit further out, as per your recommedation, but soon get lost in all the partial templates.

Regards, Graham

Martin Wynne wrote:
Graham Idle wrote:
unfortunately, I am still no closer to creating my outside slip. :(
Hi Graham,

I will try to reply soon. Currently I am preparing a reply for Trevor about tandem turnouts. Outside slips and tandems are the trickiest for beginners because there are so many variables, and you need to be familiar with using partial templates.

regards,

Martin.


posted: 20 Feb 2014 12:12

from:

Brian Nicholls
 
Poole - United Kingdom

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Hi Graham,

If you post your box file, and indicate where you want the slip moved to, I will see what I can do.

All the best,

Brian.

posted: 20 Feb 2014 12:54

from:

Graham Idle
 
Redhill, Surrey - United Kingdom

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Hi Brian

Thank you for the reply. As you can see I have not changed your original box file. I made several attempts to do the work needed, but failed miserabley, so didn't save anything.
Martin suggested moving the slip down and to the left to improve the clearance on the run round, it doesn't need moving too far but idealey the right hand switch needs to move a little to clear the timbering. I hope this is understandable.

Many thanks, Graham
Attachment: attach_1768_2393_Elan_2014_02_20.box     259

posted: 20 Feb 2014 18:14

from:

Brian Nicholls
 
Poole - United Kingdom

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Hi Graham,

See attached box file for my latest version of your outside slip.

Now there was not much room for manoeuvre, I could not move the right-hand switch very much, and in particular, I could not move it to the left otherwise it would bring the lower slip rail don closer to the Vee wing rails of the diamond.

So in fact, I moved the switch slightly more in towards the Vee of the upper LHS turnout and changed the timbering of that it was angled on the turnout road, and adjusted the slip switch position until it came in the centre of the timbers.

I have name and listed all the new parts I did with the prefix NEW-BNxx, where xx is a number.

All these new template names are in a column below the track-work.

Also below, I have taken screen shots (4) of the clearances at wing rail tips, to show there is enough clearance, at the gauge you are using, for passage of wheels and flanges.

There is still some tidying up to do, i.e. linking in your existing track work, but will leave that to you to do.

Also will leave the timbering on the new templates for you to do.

I have not removed any of your original templates from the box file, just simply added those I have generated to achieve the slip, so again there may/will be some tidying up in the storage box for you to do.

Hope this helps.

All the best,

Brian.

 

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Attachment: attach_1772_2393_elan_Sample_B_2014_02_20_1732_20.box     283

posted: 21 Feb 2014 11:43

from:

Graham Idle
 
Redhill, Surrey - United Kingdom

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Hello Brian,

Thank you very much for all the effort you have put in on my behalf. I will have a go at cleaning up the timbers and excess templates, and then I will try to build the slip. I have built points before but not anything quite so complicated, should be fun!!

Thanks again, Graham

posted: 21 Feb 2014 12:28

from:

Brian Nicholls
 
Poole - United Kingdom

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Hi Graham,

Glad to be of service.

I hope the last iteration I did suits your purpose adequately.

As you are probably aware, I also changed one or two of your surrounding templates near the slip, as this made the flow much better.

I kept as near to your original plan as possible, with little or no deviation.

Well, have fun building the slip, good luck with the overall job, if you need any further help, just post your requirements.  :thumb:

All the best,

Brian.

posted: 7 Jun 2014 19:23

from:

Brian Nicholls
 
Poole - United Kingdom

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Hi Graham,

Please find latest attached the box file for Elan.

I have sorted out the individual parts and connected them correctly so you should now have an overall outside slip template.

I have not done any timber shoving, since I thought you may need the basic template urgently, however, if you need me to do that for you just let me know.


All the best,

Brian.

Attachment: attach_1866_2393_elan_2014_06_07_1908_53.box     250

posted: 8 Jun 2014 08:43

from:

Graham Idle
 
Redhill, Surrey - United Kingdom

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Hi Brian,
Thank you for your invaluable help.
Regards, Graham


posted: 8 Jun 2014 12:13

from:

Brian Nicholls
 
Poole - United Kingdom

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Hi Graham,

Please find attached below, the Elan OS Slip which is now timbered.

All the best,

Brian.
Attachment: attach_1867_2393_elan_timbered_2014_06_08_1206_43.box     279

posted: 8 Jun 2014 12:28

from:

Brian Nicholls
 
Poole - United Kingdom

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Hi Graham,

I forgot to mention, that the timbered templates are over laid on top of the un-timbered templates, so is all you need to do is remove the underlying (un-timbered) template.

These carry the same name tittles, with the exception of the word 'Timbered' at the end which has been added to the timbered templates.

All the best,

Brian.


posted: 8 Jun 2014 19:45

from:

Graham Idle
 
Redhill, Surrey - United Kingdom

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Hi Brian,

Again, thank you very much. I will have a go at building the slip over the next couple of weeks and see how I get on.

Regards, Graham

Brian Nicholls wrote:
Hi Graham,

I forgot to mention, that the timbered templates are over laid on top of the un-timbered templates, so is all you need to do is remove the underlying (un-timbered) template.

These carry the same name tittles, with the exception of the word 'Timbered' at the end which has been added to the timbered templates.

All the best,

Brian.





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