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topic: 2397Straws in the wind
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posted: 3 Feb 2014 22:52

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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A while ago I was wondering if there is a long-term future for programs such as Templot, now that the days of the home desktop computer seem to be drawing to a close. As a straw in the wind, this has just been posted on RMweb:

 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/81879-cl-diamond-crossing-ratio/#entry1331371

Is it possible to do proper computing on a tablet computer, and where would I start in coding it? Or is the future for Templot on a hobby electronics system such as the Raspberry Pi?

Martin.
Last edited on 3 Feb 2014 22:53 by Martin Wynne
posted: 3 Feb 2014 23:04

from:

Trevor Walling
 
United Kingdom

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Hello Martin,
                   I would suggest tablets are too small for using something such as Templot.Besides the screen size, there is also the issue of a physical keyboard being absent.My grandchildren have them but their use is very limited really.Games and touch screens seem ok but using a plug in keyboard without a larger screen would be/is a nightmare.Getting something printed out would lead to even more complication.I am not saying it would be impossible but the permutations of difficulty would be even worse than with a pc.The grandchildren always prefer a pc for doing things if that alternative is available.
Trevor. :)

posted: 3 Feb 2014 23:22

from:

Rob Manchester
 
Manchester - United Kingdom

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Martin Wynne wrote:
A while ago I was wondering if there is a long-term future for programs such as Templot........


Martin.
Martin,

You will be pleased to know that I think many users of Templot would prefer a desktop system with a large monitor. Laptops, tablets and pi's all have their place but not I suspect for serious Templot use.

Yes, I know several of the people on here use laptops for lunchtime use and the like to do some extra Templotting.

Rob ( on a desktop computer)

posted: 3 Feb 2014 23:39

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Rob Manchester wrote:
You will be pleased to know that I think many users of Templot would prefer a desktop system with a large monitor. Laptops, tablets and pi's all have their place but not I suspect for serious Templot use.
Hi Rob,

I know that's what most of us would prefer. But in a future household without such a thing, it may be too expensive just to run a hobby program? Everything else being done on mobile devices.

Raspberry Pi is out in the short term -- no x86 processor so a complete rewrite needed.

But maybe this is a possible -- even a dedicated Templot gadget? :) Runs Linux on x86 so hopefully also Wine:

 http://uk.farnell.com/circuitco/minnowboard/atom-e640t-platform-without-psu/dp/2360034

 http://minnowboard.org

Martin.

posted: 4 Feb 2014 00:26

from:

Ian Allen
 
Milton Keynes - United Kingdom

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Martin,

Have you considered that say 10 to 20 years from now we may actually be using an interactive home server based system with large "monitors" ? Although Tablets and their ilk are becoming more user friendly in terms of mobility, their use for computer is limited. Think of them more in terms of a web browsing/social network tool, whereas there will always, hopefully, be a need for a dedicated home PC/server.

Ian

posted: 4 Feb 2014 01:26

from:

Matt M.
 
Australia

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Hi Martin,

I'd like to say that the larger home computer is not dead but
one can never be sure.

There are so many things that have to come together
to allow technological leaps.
Look how long it took to get from the "Apple Newton"
to smart phones and tablets. And all the variations along the way.

Most companies are pushing mobile devices and entertainment content
as it is the part of the industry that still growing.
Desktop sales, as part of that, are shrinking, but not really dropping away
as much as people think.

Where companies and individuals can save money they will,
but you still can't beat screen size with so many applications.
And a 30" and up screen is not really portable.

While I have been running Templot on an Apple Mac Book Pro 17"
I still want a dedicated machine with two screens for that type
of application. It is just so much easier.

Anyway, as the power of devices increases the software gobbles up the
processing improvements anyway. Always been the case.
And desk tops are usually more powerful than their portable versions.

Matt M.

posted: 4 Feb 2014 08:33

from:

its_all_downhill
 
North Yorkshire - United Kingdom

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This brings up an interesting topic. My take on it is that although personal sales of desktops are dwindling the corporate market will still need a requirement for them as staff need to come in and sit at a desk as the idea of remote working is still some way off even after decades of it being touted as the panacea of flexible working. So the world moves on and 'we' all want tablets, smartphones and phablets to consume our content. But the smaller percentage who want to create content still require a larger screen estate to do that. There are that will argue that you can do this on the media devices and I myself use a number of these but when it comes to things like Templot I would like a bigger screen. However for a while whist I was travelling I did use an Asus Netbook with a tiny screen and I am now using a Mac Air with 13" as my primary computer. I think certainly in terms of home use patterns have changed and we now more mobile and couch surf more frequently. I also think that TV will play more of a role in the home use of computing whereas we take our mobile computing with us more often now, just look at any railway carriage nowadays.

So I guess what am am trying to say that there is and will always be a market for desktop systems but the traditional home use is changing. So what to develop for the future well I think a generic coding platform allowing maybe native application operation although this may make overheads but would open up possibilities. I think that in operating systems land things will stay pretty much as is but the hardware will may/will and has changed but the core system looks to change little in the near future but the reality is that most of us use laptops so maybe we use the monitor ports to get the second screen.

posted: 4 Feb 2014 15:54

from:

gsmorris
 
 

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I am running templot on a windows table under 8.1 and it is very good. I also have a touch screen attached to a lap top (or the tablet) and find that is good also. however it des take some time to get away from mouse think!

more of a problem is using multi screens as the built in options in templot can be a bit restrictive. I have actually run templot from a ipad remotely and usefully. It is probably more about I/O user interface than device. Remember when a mouse was not good enough for precise input and coordinates from a keyboard were needed. sometimes still an issue even with good zoom functionality these days.

posted: 23 Feb 2014 23:55

from:

dave turner
 
United Kingdom

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Martin,

Whilst it is true that the majority of computer users are web browsers and database users (knowingly or unknowingly); and as such may be satisfied with purely social networking devices. Normal business users require word processing, photo-manipulation and spreadsheets at least. In addition there is a vast user base of people who require input methods more precise than current touch screens. I'm reasonably certain that business needs, professionals and hobbyists will ensure the continuation of Laptops and PCs though we we may see a bigger shift to Linux variants if Microsoft & Apple ignore their roots.

As such niche programs like Templot become more not less important.
Last edited on 10 Sep 2015 19:18 by dave turner
posted: 31 Mar 2014 18:48

from:

gsmorris
 
 

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I use a windows tablet with templot mist of the time. Not a problem and a plug in screen when not on the road a lovely experience . Fingers mouse and pen and keyboard as wanted. Actually used an I pad for several yeasts now as a remote accesses and no problems either. But the windows or dell or HP tablets with windows are all good. Templot is an up close experience that is tablet friendly

posted: 20 Jun 2015 18:10

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Martin Wynne wrote:
Is it possible to do proper computing on a tablet computer?
I have come back to this topic to report that the answer is yes.

More and more these days I am developing Templot on my Windows tablet. The screen is only 12" but in practice the physical size is irrelevant -- you just get closer to it. The important thing is the resolution, which at 2160 x 1440 is actually more than any of my other systems. The screen is about the same size as a sheet of A4 paper, so looking at it seems more natural than other sizes. It has a clip-on keyboard and pen, but most of the time I use it with a proper USB keyboard and Bluetooth mouse.

Which means that I can now work on Templot while sitting in a comfy chair or out in the garden. I know I could have done that with a laptop, but I could never get on with laptops -- for me the keyboard was always in the wrong place relative to the screen. And other previous options wouldn't run a full version of Windows.

My fear was that if I ever get Templot to what might be called "finished", there would be no-one left with any means to use it. :)

But with Windows tablets seemingly getting more popular, that may not come true. Of course you still need a printer, and how many still have one of those in working order?

Martin.

posted: 20 Jun 2015 19:55

from:

Trevor Walling
 
United Kingdom

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Hello Martin,
A lot of devices are coming with usb or HDMI connectors so it is quite easy to use them with ever increasing tv and monitor flat screens.
Regards.
Trevor.

posted: 21 Jun 2015 18:55

from:

dave turner
 
United Kingdom

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I don't get on with touch screens at all - partly to do with disliking sticky fingers on the screen. Give me a keyboard and optical trackball any day. How that's achieved is almost irrelevant.

Regards
Dave

posted: 24 Jun 2015 09:57

from:

madscientist
 
 

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I'd like to see the ultility , clarity and use-ability of my 27" mac retina display surpassed by some tablet !!!
Last edited on 24 Jun 2015 09:58 by madscientist
posted: 26 Jun 2015 22:50

from:

roythebus
 
Aldington Frith, Ashford, Kent - United Kingdom

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I hate technology with a vengeance, especially smart phones, tablets and the like, far too complicated who is the wrong side of 60! So far I've used Templot on my Windows 7 laptop and Windows 7 desktop without too many problems except that I forget what all the bits of Templot actually do!
Don't even try to teach me windows 8, and as for the apple Mac desktop we bought, it might as well be Japanese!

posted: posted: 3 Sep 2015 14:12

from:

gsmorris
 
 

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I run templot on a windows tablet with a big screen when needed. I have also used an iPad as an input device/graphic tablet to a pc in the past. not really a problem

3 Sep 2015 14:12

from:

gsmorris
 
 

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I run templot on a windows tablet with a big screen when needed. I have also used an iPad as an input device/graphic tablet to a pc in the past. not really a problem

posted: 4 Sep 2015 18:11

from:

DerekStuart
 
United Kingdom

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Martin,

If I may add to this old-ish thread. Just supposing- and I do not believe this for a moment- that conventional PC work stations become virtually extinct.

Let us suppose that android or similar continues to win the tablet wars and there are too few PCs left capable of running Templot. By that time, tablet prices will have come down even further and would it be un-realistic to expect people to buy a cheap windoze [sic] tablet just to run Templot? I think not.

In any case, mac based tablets run Templot under emulation and if tablets get faster you can be pretty sure android will eventually (if it cannot already) be able to emulate windoze.

So no- we are damned lucky to be able to use Templot and if people want to carry on doing so then WE should adapt to YOU/TEMPLOT, not the other way around.

Derek

posted: 4 Sep 2015 18:32

from:

madscientist
 
 

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certain applications like CAD, PCB design , etc always need screen real estate. Other applications also benefit from bigger screen space, like DTP, programming etc

having switched to a iMac with a 27" , Im never going small again



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