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topic: 2404File preview
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posted: 14 Feb 2014 19:58

from:

Godfrey Earnshaw
 
Crawley - United Kingdom

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Hi MartinI have dozens or maybe hundreds of box files and when I want to see what I did in a particular file to see if I've done something similar before I have to wade through loading into Templot looking, discarding, loading,,,,,
Many applications have the ability to look at files without loading is this feasible in Templot. Appreciate it may not be easy but if you could take a look, I would be grateful.
Cheers Godders

posted: 14 Feb 2014 20:18

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Hi Godders,

How would you see this working?

I can't see an obvious way to see what's in a .box file without loading it. :?

For new .box files we could perhaps include a screenshot of the trackpad, or a list of the storage box contents, or both, in the .box file for use by a "preview" function. And of course you can always set a meaningful file name, or put them in meaningful folders. But none of that is much help if you already have hundreds of anonymous .box files.

A possible new function would be "next file" in which Templot reloads the next file in a folder on a single click or keypress?

regards,

Martin.

posted: 14 Feb 2014 21:01

from:

Godfrey Earnshaw
 
Crawley - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin,
Thank you for your rapid response. I will try and describe what to me would be useful.
If I use Windows explorer and select a file then depending on which option I have chosen the image appears to the right of the files and is "zoomable". This applies to .png, .jpg and .dwg files at least.

Cheers Godders

PS it also works for .txt files

posted: 15 Feb 2014 15:06

from:

Trevor Walling
 
United Kingdom

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Hello,
If you included the date in file names you could see the earliest or final version of a particular file name.You could always look at a files properties in explorer to find the date of last modified status to start putting them in some meaningful order.Assuming you are using Windows.I sometimes just reload the box files by Going to storage box and reload and replace existing contents.If you have particular versions including a date in the name it is really simple to keep track .(No pun intended) :)

2110_151018_220000000.png2110_151018_220000000.png

2110_151022_350000000.png2110_151022_350000000.png
Trevor
Last edited on 15 Feb 2014 15:22 by Trevor Walling
posted: 15 Feb 2014 15:48

from:

Godfrey Earnshaw
 
Crawley - United Kingdom

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Hi Trevor,
It's not enough. I already have 50 sub folders under templot_dev>box-files>.As you know the date and time is automatically appended to the filename, so it is not the chronological order that is the problem.What I would like to be able to see is what modification I made to each version of a file. For example I may draw a complete layout and then in the next version I may change say two turnouts for a double slip. My memory is not and never has been good enough to retain this amount of detail for each file, particularly as I may have in excess of 1000 files over a period of almost 4 years.As I explained above the facility is available for many types of file, but not for .box files.I'm not holding a gun to Martin's head, it's just that I would find it helpful.I would also find it helpful to annotate a whole Templot file by putting text notes at particular points of interest.
Sorry Trevor now look what you've made me do, branch off the subject, I feel such a heel but it is just another point.
BTW, looks from your screen dumps that you may be working in 00-SF, good choice.
Cheers Godders

posted: 15 Feb 2014 19:05

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Godfrey Earnshaw wrote:
I already have 50 sub folders under templot_dev>box-files>
....
I may have in excess of 1000 files over a period of almost 4 years.
Hi Godders,

Good grief! :shock: :)

It's an interesting feature request, and with that many files to sort through I can see why you need it.

But it's not simple. The only program which can make any sense of a .box file is Templot -- Windows can't do it by itself. In order to integrate such a feature into Windows Explorer it would be necessary either to include a screenshot image within the .box file (which would work only for new files, not your existing 1000 files); or else to write an OLE version of Templot which can draw the box contents on a supplied canvas. Neither of these is straightforward, and would almost certainly have issues with different versions of Windows. Also, Windows Explorer is not available to users on Crossover/Wine on Linux and Mac computers.

It would however be possible to write a "file viewer" function within Templot itself. So that you could select a folder and then have a trackpad screenshot appear alongside each file in a scrollable list, with some options to zoom in on them.

It's not a 5-minute task, so before embarking on it I need a few more expressions of interest. I will put my own hand up, because I too have a large number of .box files accumulated over many years and it would be very useful. :)

I would also find it helpful to annotate a whole Templot file by putting text notes at particular points of interest.
At present you can add and edit a memo text note of any length to any template, which is then included in the file. For notes about the entire box, you could perhaps add them to the memo notes for the first template. Or maybe create a dummy template called say "notes" simply to contain the notes:

2_151355_270000000.png2_151355_270000000.png

The memo can be added and edited to the control template before it is stored, or you can add/edit the memo notes for any template on the storage box at edit > edit memo notes... menu item.

You can print or PDF a list of all the memo notes in a file at box > print template info > memo notes only menu item.

I will look at an option to have the memo notes displayed on the trackpad immediately below the template name label. It's going to look very messy unless zoomed in, but it could be turned on and off as required.

If you wanted fully annotated screenshots with formatted and coloured text, you could use the sketchboard to add such text items to the trackplan, and save an .sk9 sketchboard file. The notes could include the .box file name for reference, and the memo note in the first template could specify the .sk9 file name.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 15 Feb 2014 21:26

from:

Trevor Walling
 
United Kingdom

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Godfrey Earnshaw wrote:
Hi Trevor,
It's not enough. I already have 50 sub folders under templot_dev>box-files>. I may have in excess of 1000 files over a period of almost 4 years
Hello Godfrey,
                     I guess you don't like or bother with computer games either :D
Yes 00-SF is the path I am following.
Best wishes.
Trevor.
Last edited on 15 Feb 2014 21:28 by Trevor Walling
posted: 16 Feb 2014 08:26

from:

Godfrey Earnshaw
 
Crawley - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin,Contain yourself, religious outbursts, what next you're not dealing with Jim S-W. I can assure you I am a supporter of yours, I love the work you do and your logic. However, back to the points in hand.The last thing I want to do is create loads of work for you and although I would appreciate what I have suggested being implemented, I won't come to any harm if it's not.I had thought it may be a simple extension of what already exists in Windows. That is my ignorance of this level of programming.
As for the notes issue; the moment I mentioned it to Trevor I went back into Templot and tried a few things that you later suggested in your reply again I can live with that.
After three and a half years of using Templot I still have a lot to learn so I won't be idle waiting for any new features.
BTW I think you should register Templot with the Health Authorities as a Notifiable Disease with symptoms similar to a skin allergy that continuously makes you want to scratch.
Cheers Godders
Last edited on 16 Feb 2014 08:30 by Godfrey Earnshaw
posted: 16 Feb 2014 08:41

from:

Godfrey Earnshaw
 
Crawley - United Kingdom

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Trevor Walling wrote:
Godfrey Earnshaw wrote:
Hi Trevor,
It's not enough. I already have 50 sub folders under templot_dev>box-files>. I may have in excess of 1000 files over a period of almost 4 years
Hello Godfrey,
                     I guess you don't like or bother with computer games either :D
Yes 00-SF is the path I am following.
Best wishes.
Trevor.
Hello to you too Trevor,Perfectly correct, can't abide computer games.I presume you're using the word path as in "the chosen way". Such a lot of religious phrases today. Yes, 00-SF, the practical answer to modelling in 00. At least it is a set of standards based on a well tried and tested way, EM gauge, without the hassle of changing all those wheelsets.

Must rush, got to get to Brighton for the half-marathon, no, not me, my son is into that sort of nonsense. Don't know why he can't get a decent hobby, like his father. You try to bring up your children with good values and most of them stray off the straight and narrow and become athletes.
Cheers Godders

posted: 16 Feb 2014 12:55

from:

Simon Dunkley
 
Oakham - United Kingdom

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Godfrey Earnshaw wrote:
Hi Trevor,
It's not enough. I already have 50 sub folders under templot_dev>box-files>.As you know the date and time is automatically appended to the filename, so it is not the chronological order that is the problem.What I would like to be able to see is what modification I made to each version of a file. For example I may draw a complete layout and then in the next version I may change say two turnouts for a double slip. My memory is not and never has been good enough to retain this amount of detail for each file, particularly as I may have in excess of 1000 files over a period of almost 4 years.

You can always add some text to the file name before saving it...
It can be in abbreviated form, eg DS for double slip, etc.

Simon
Last edited on 16 Feb 2014 12:56 by Simon Dunkley
posted: 16 Feb 2014 12:59

from:

Simon Dunkley
 
Oakham - United Kingdom

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Godfrey Earnshaw wrote:

what next you're not dealing with Jim S-W.


Not sure what that's about - and I don't want or need to know - but one of the things I appreciate about the Templot forum is that we are free of "personality clashes", so can we keep such comments out of things, please?

Simon
Last edited on 16 Feb 2014 13:00 by Simon Dunkley
posted: 16 Feb 2014 13:43

from:

Godfrey Earnshaw
 
Crawley - United Kingdom

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Simon Dunkley wrote:
Godfrey Earnshaw wrote:

what next you're not dealing with Jim S-W.


Not sure what that's about - and I don't want or need to know - but one of the things I appreciate about the Templot forum is that we are free of "personality clashes", so can we keep such comments out of things, please?

Simon
Hi Simon,If you don't know the context how can you judge it to be a personality clash. I didn't realise you were a moderator but even if you are I expect the person to whom the comment was directed to reply and I would suggest by getting involved that you are creating an incident when none existed.
As for your previous post, I have tried that approach but I often had more changes than could be easily described in a few words in a filename.
Cheers Godders

posted: 16 Feb 2014 14:14

from:

Simon Dunkley
 
Oakham - United Kingdom

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I am not a moderator: I just believe in free speech and moderate behaviour. It may not be a personality clash, it may just be personal: I was trying to use neutral language. Neither am I trying to create an incident, just observing that a comment seemed to include a personal barb and expressing a preference against them. Not knowing the context of the remark, I took it at face value, I.e. Something which seems to be a personal and derogatory slight. It may have been a humorous remark, but I could not see any sign of humour in it.

As for keeping track of what you did when, may I suggest pen and paper, with a few notes, or a simple document if you prefer it electronically, recording the changes you made? A pain in the proverbials until you get used toot, but version control of documents is commonplace nowadays.

Apologies if I misread you.

Simon

posted: 16 Feb 2014 14:42

from:

Godfrey Earnshaw
 
Crawley - United Kingdom

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Simon Dunkley wrote:
I am not a moderator: I just believe in free speech and moderate behaviour. It may not be a personality clash, it may just be personal: I was trying to use neutral language. Neither am I trying to create an incident, just observing that a comment seemed to include a personal barb and expressing a preference against them. Not knowing the context of the remark, I took it at face value, I.e. Something which seems to be a personal and derogatory slight. It may have been a humorous remark, but I could not see any sign of humour in it.

As for keeping track of what you did when, may I suggest pen and paper, with a few notes, or a simple document if you prefer it electronically, recording the changes you made? A pain in the proverbials until you get used toot, but version control of documents is commonplace nowadays.

Apologies if I misread you.

Simon
Simon,

You could be right, this is not an excuse, it's offered as a reason. I am a Yorkshireman and have travelled extensively and have a skin as thick as a rhinoceros . It seems that in a lot of places the "Yorkshire wit" is too caustic. I know Martin only through what I have read here and in other forums and as I stated earlier I have a great admiration for him and particularly this project. I have also read "the other guy" and have also met him. He also is a very pleasant, knowledgeable and skillful man. So it was not meant to be derogatory to either of them. However, I realise I shall have to be more careful about my comments if they may lead to any misunderstanding .

Now to answer your notes suggestion. I have worked in a documented environment all my working life and always regarded it as primitive and prone to error to keep hand written notes. As computers developed, I also developed better semi-automated ways of keeping documents up to date.  I feel I have better things to do with my time when it can be done automatically. Martin has given us version control from the point of view that the .box files are date stamped. I have asked him for two things that would make my life easier, drawing preview and notes on the Templot trackpad. I also realise he is a busy man and as I explained to him I thought they might be easy to implement. They are not and I can accept that, it was just a suggestion.

No harm done I hope

Cheers Godders

posted: 16 Feb 2014 15:24

from:

Simon Dunkley
 
Oakham - United Kingdom

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I am married to a Yorkshirewoman: nuff sed!

I agree that your suggestions were nice to haves: I don't have as many subdirectories as you, and I did go back and do a lot of pruning of box files, too, but keeping track of everything is a trial at times - for which I have only myself to blame.

Simon

posted: 16 Feb 2014 20:45

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Godfrey Earnshaw wrote:

Hi Martin,Contain yourself, religious outbursts, what next you're not dealing with Jim S-W. I can assure you I am a supporter of yours, I love the work you do and your logic.
Hi Godders,

You have rather lost me there, but thanks for the kind words. :?  Is the blank quote an example of my logic? :D

Jim Smith-Wright is building an impressive P4 model of Birmingham New Street in the 1980s. He is not a member here because he prefers to use a CAD package on his Mac computer for the track design. I'm not sure where he fits into this topic? We can both do a good outburst, but I'm not sure about being religious. :)

Simon, there are no moderators and no rules on Templot Club. It's been running that way for nearly 15 years now without any trouble, so I intend to keep it that way.

Reverting to the actual subject of a file preview, I am going to implement something along these lines, if only because I need it myself. It can't be done in Windows Explorer, and even if it could I wouldn't want to because I want Templot to work as fully as possible under Wine on Linux/Mac computers.

Instead I will make a file viewer function within Templot itself.

It will take a while to do, but in the meantime you may like to add a dummy template with the name "read me" to your .box files, and add any notes about the file to its memo notes. I suggest making it a short centre-line-only background template, so that you can easily access it to read/edit the notes (edit memo notes is on the pop-up menu for a background template). Short means say 25mm -- enough to see and click on. Don't place it too far from the tracks, otherwise it will cause a blank page to be printed.

I will display the memo notes for this template as a mouse-over in the file viewer, and add a confirm dialog if a user attempts to delete a template with the name "read me".

regards,

Martin. 

posted: 16 Feb 2014 21:48

from:

Jim S-W
 
Solihull / Brierley Hill - United Kingdom

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I am a member Martin but I don't visit much.

It's not that I prefer something over templot it's that it won't run on my pre-historic mac and I already had and knew how to use illustrator.

Simple as that

Cheers

Jim
Last edited on 16 Feb 2014 21:49 by Jim S-W
posted: 16 Feb 2014 22:09

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Jim S-W wrote:
I am a member Martin but I don't visit much.
Sorry Jim, I should have checked the list.

You are very welcome to visit as often as you wish, using Templot or not. :)

regards,

Martin.

posted: 16 Feb 2014 23:41

from:

Godfrey Earnshaw
 
Crawley - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin,

The reference to "religious outbursts" was the "Good Heavens". Which I found rather an understatement and was being a little ironic as I watch with amusement your "battles" with Jim at various times.


The blank box is there because I did a "Reply with quote" so I could keep it in view but then found I couldn't remove the box, so deleted all the text instead only to find that when I took out the quotation marks it imported text from below.


Look forward to the file viewer and thanks for the advice on memo notes.


Cheers Godders

posted: 17 Feb 2014 05:29

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Godfrey Earnshaw wrote:
The reference to "religious outbursts" was the "Good Heavens".
Hi Godders,

How many are there? Heavens I mean. Are there some bad ones? I didn't realise I was being religious, so to make sure we keep our feet on the ground I have changed it to "Good grief". :)

Martin.

posted: 17 Feb 2014 07:24

from:

Matt M.
 
Australia

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Hi Martin,

As a "Peanuts" worshiper, I feel that "Good grief" could
be an issue to others like myself out there.

Maybe "To infinity and beyond"… no that will also cause
problems.

Perhaps "May the force..". No. The Jedi set would be offended.
Plus the lawsuit.

Good grief this is hard.

Damn. :)

Matt M.

posted: 17 Feb 2014 08:38

from:

Jim S-W
 
Solihull / Brierley Hill - United Kingdom

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Martin Wynne wrote:
Jim S-W wrote:
I am a member Martin but I don't visit much.
Sorry Jim, I should have checked the list.

You are very welcome to visit as often as you wish, using Templot or not. :)

regards,

Martin.


Thanks Martin

As I don't use templot (or indeed have even seen anything other than screen grabs) I doubt I can offer much/anything. Even my prototype knowledge just comes down to copying what I see with no real understanding.

I'm only popping in now because it appeared on my referrers list.

Cheers

Jim

posted: 17 Feb 2014 14:59

from:

Godfrey Earnshaw
 
Crawley - United Kingdom

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Martin Wynne wrote:
Godfrey Earnshaw wrote:
The reference to "religious outbursts" was the "Good Heavens".
Hi Godders,

How many are there? Heavens I mean. Are there some bad ones? I didn't realise I was being religious, so to make sure we keep our feet on the ground I have changed it to "Good grief". :)

Martin.
Hi Martin,
According to the Oxford dictionary "heaven" is the abode of God (or the gods)...
All references are of a religious connection except for the informal use which is "a place, state, or experience of supreme bliss".
However, believe it or not, it's a bowdlerized version of "Good God!" (or "Good Lord!"), which is, in turn, a shortening of the liturgical response "Good Lord, deliver us" (from the hardship or vexation just mentioned in the Litany). In this case, it's a response to a clear and present bit of unpleasantness, often a mechanical device that won't co-operate or a vexatious person.
Perhaps in future, "Oh dear" will be sufficient.


BTW if Jim had only got himself a more modern machine and got to grips with Templot he could have saved himself all the work on Birmingham New Street and built it in 00-SF, he would have finished it by now and could have used RTR stock to boot.

Yours, with tongue firmly in cheek, Godders

posted: 17 Feb 2014 16:56

from:

Jim S-W
 
Solihull / Brierley Hill - United Kingdom

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Hi Godders

I only actually know one person personally who built a 00-sf layout but he scrapped it to build a p4 one. Having said that Phil did likewise with Calcutta and that was EM. Its one of the reasons I said I do actually support better track as ultimately it gets people looking and (in my experience) they choose p4 of thier own bat.

Truth is if I'd have used 00sf I wouldn't have saved any time at all on the track building front and to be fair the 10 mins or so it takes to swap wheels from OO to p4 is insignificant compared to the time it takes to detail and weather the stock. :)

Cheers

Jim

posted: 17 Feb 2014 18:53

from:

polybear
 
 

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Jim S-W wrote:
Truth is if I'd have used 00sf I wouldn't have saved any time at all on the track building front and to be fair the 10 mins or so it takes to swap wheels from OO to p4 is insignificant compared to the time it takes to detail and weather the stock. :)

Cheers

Jim
Hi Jim,

But that's cos' you play with those strange lookin' locos that don't have boilers, fireboxes or outside valvegear (the devil's work).  How long would it take you to convert a Bachmann 9F to P4... :D

Cheers,
Brian

posted: 17 Feb 2014 22:30

from:

Jim S-W
 
Solihull / Brierley Hill - United Kingdom

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Why would you want to? The wheelbase is wrong. In fact you cant do a correct 9f unless it's in p4 as the flanges bind in the other 4mm scales. I get your point though. It's swings and roundabouts, build a 9f or research design and scratchbuild 7 scale miles of accurate overhead? Put that way steam locos seem quite enticing :)

Cheers

Jim

posted: 18 Feb 2014 17:41

from:

polybear
 
 

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Jim S-W wrote:
Put that way steam locos seem quite enticing :)

Cheers

Jim
Blimey Jim :shock:.  Next you'll be admitting that 00-sf is a rather good idea after all.... :D

Brian

posted: 19 Feb 2014 09:22

from:

Jim S-W
 
Solihull / Brierley Hill - United Kingdom

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:)

If brassmasters ever do a duchess kit...

posted: 25 Feb 2014 21:54

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Martin Wynne wrote:
Reverting to the actual subject of a file preview, I am going to implement something along these lines, if only because I need it myself. It can't be done in Windows Explorer, and even if it could I wouldn't want to because I want Templot to work as fully as possible under Wine on Linux/Mac computers.

Instead I will make a file viewer function within Templot itself.
Hi Godders,

I have made a bit of progress with this. You have to be prepared to wait a few seconds while Templot loads all the .box files and creates the screenshots for the selected folder:

2_251633_340000000.png2_251633_340000000.png


Then you can scroll through them all and reload the one you want, or try a different folder:

2_251633_350000001.png2_251633_350000001.png

The screenshot images are 666 x 333 which I hope will be big enough to see what is in the file without needing a zoom function, but at the same time small enough to be scrollable. If you are not sure it is only a click to reload the file and see. I've included a truncated info panel in the screenshots so that the gauge/scale is visible.

The screenshots are created using the current colours and generator settings on the trackpad, so you can change them to whatever you prefer before using the file viewer. This is the "bright night" colour scheme with the skeleton settings in the generator:

2_251704_380000000.png2_251704_380000000.png

In the next program update.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 26 Feb 2014 07:02

from:

PeterD
 
Waterlooville - United Kingdom

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Thanks Martin. This looks to be a very useful facility. I am amazed how you have the time to manage queries and develop Templot.
Very well done and thankyou.
Best wishes
Peter

posted: 26 Feb 2014 07:57

from:

Jim Guthrie
 
United Kingdom

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Martin,

Echoing Peter, that does look useful. I don't have thousands of files :D , but there are times when I want to find a particular point in a layout's development when time and date in the file name are not a great help, and it requires opening a string of files to find the correct one. This facility will knock that on the head. :D

Jim.

posted: 26 Feb 2014 08:11

from:

Godfrey Earnshaw
 
Crawley - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin,

Thanks a lot, it's amazing how things you never thought you needed suddenly become one of the best tools you've got.
Can't wait to try it, any ideas on release date.
I feel like a child waiting for a new toy.

Cheers Godders

posted: 26 Feb 2014 10:22

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Godfrey Earnshaw wrote:
any ideas on release date.
Thanks for the positive comments.

Sorry, I don't do dates. :)

It's not finished yet, it needs a "delete this file" option. Which is easy to do if you don't mind waiting while it regenerates the list every time, but that would be a pain if you want to delete several files from a folder of hundreds. Instead I want to mark the file for deletion and allow you to continue scrolling.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 26 Feb 2014 13:00

from:

JFS
 
United Kingdom

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Martin,

I also feel this will be a really good feature - but just one question:- how fast will it be? It rather looks like Templot will have to open each file and then create the image (unless the plan is to store a thumbnail with each file).

It just seems that this might be quite a slow operation. which implies a bit of frustration if you have to wait for the whole list to generate before finding the one you want.

Presumably the traditional option of using the Windows GetFile dialogue will remain for people who know what is in the files they created?

Best wishes,

Howard.

posted: 26 Feb 2014 14:47

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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JFS wrote:
I also feel this will be a really good feature - but just one question:- how fast will it be? It rather looks like Templot will have to open each file and then create the image (unless the plan is to store a thumbnail with each file).
Hi Howard,

The obvious solution of saving a thumbnail with or inside each file is no good, because Godfrey (and I) have dozens of historical .box files going back years which we want to sort through more easily. Thumbnails would work only with newly created files.

So yes, Templot has to load each file and make a screenshot image. As to how long it takes -- a piece of string comes to mind. It depends how many files are in each folder, how many templates are in each file, and significantly on the generator menu settings you choose. Setting the use skeleton settings option before you start eliminates half the rail drawing and all of the timbering, with a big increase in speed.

On my test system (Windows7/64bit AMD 2.7GHz) a folder containing 100 .box files of average contents took:

full generator settings -- 23 seconds to display the full list of 100 screenshots

skeleton generator settings -- 12 seconds to display the full list of 100 screenshots

In my testing I haven't found the delay a problem -- much faster than manually reloading each file trying to find the one you want.

Obviously if you have 500 files in a folder, and every file contains hundreds of templates, you will have time to make a nice cup of tea and open a packet of biscuits while you are waiting. :)

Also, each screenshot requires 900KB of RAM for the bitmap, so a list of 500 screenshots will need 450MB of available RAM on the system. Which may slow things down a bit on older systems. It would be worth taking a few minutes to split up the files into smaller sub-folders to make the task easier.

Presumably the traditional option of using the Windows GetFile dialogue will remain for people who know what is in the files they created?
Yes, there is no change to any existing functions. If you know which file you want that is still the quickest way to reload it. The recent files list is even quicker.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 26 Feb 2014 16:53

from:

JFS
 
United Kingdom

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Many thanks for that Martin. Just on the question of the generator settings - would it be possible for Templot to "automatically" select skeleton settings just for the purpose of drawing the images and revert to the user's setting on completion?

Cheers,

Howard.

posted: 26 Feb 2014 17:27

from:

Godfrey Earnshaw
 
Crawley - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin,
Sorry if you thought I was pressuring you it was just my childish eager anticipation.

Cheers Godders

posted: 26 Feb 2014 19:07

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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JFS wrote:
Just on the question of the generator settings - would it be possible for Templot to "automatically" select skeleton settings just for the purpose of drawing the images and revert to the user's setting on completion?
Hi Howard,

Possible yes. I considered it, but it may not be what everyone wants. Not everyone has hundreds of files all in one folder, and the delay may not be enough to worry about. For others the timbering may be an important part of identifying the file -- various iterations of timber shoving for example.

My usual solution to such things is to display a "handy hint" alert with some options, so I will probably do that for folders with more than say 25 .box files.

My general feeling is that if someone has amassed hundreds of large .box files, they have enough Templot experience to make their own decision and settings. There is the usual ?help button on the file viewer dialog which will explain the details.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 27 Feb 2014 11:33

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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I have now added the delete option, and also the file size and date info:

2_270620_590000000.png2_270620_590000000.png

Please note that the date format (International or American) is determined by the Windows international settings on your computer, it is not controlled by Templot.

The delete function includes an "are you sure?" confirm dialog, including the relevant screenshot, but there is no undo function.

It also requires that the file is still in a Templot folder or sub-folder. If you have moved your .box files to a folder owned by Windows or some other program, delete may not work.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 1 Mar 2014 14:07

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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A bit more progress. The readme notes could be very helpful, although only on newly created files of course. It won't be any help with old files.


2_010900_530000000.png2_010900_530000000.png


2_010900_540000001.png2_010900_540000001.png


Martin.

posted: 3 Apr 2014 18:40

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Godfrey Earnshaw wrote:
Thanks a lot, it's amazing how things you never thought you needed suddenly become one of the best tools you've got. Can't wait to try it, any ideas on release date?

I feel like a child waiting for a new toy.
Hi Godders,

Here you go  :) -- now in 208d:

  message 15570

Please give it a good bashing and let me know any issues or suggestions. There are some brief help notes but I think most of it is self-explanatory if you click the links and buttons.

You can click the screenshots to reload the file, but that also closes the viewer. If you are a mouse fumbler like me you may find that annoying when scrolling a long list. You can turn off image clicking by unticking the option bottom left. The reload links still work of course.

The viewer can be accessed from 3 menu locations:

2_022237_220000002.png2_022237_220000002.png

2_022237_210000001.png2_022237_210000001.png

2_022237_220000003.png2_022237_220000003.png

regards,

Martin.

posted: 3 Apr 2014 19:27

from:

JFS
 
United Kingdom

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Martin Wynne wrote:


Please give it a good bashing and let me know any issues or suggestions.
Hello Martin.

Many thanks for this.

However, I did encounter something of an issue (probably because I have failed to read an instruction somewhere!)

When I clicked the file viewer item from the Storage box, it went away (from some while!) to generate images but this was the result:-

undefinedundefined1129_031417_070000000.jpg1129_031417_070000000.jpg

You can see that the resultant preview images all show the same thing and none of them are trackplans because the workpad in which the images were generated positioned itself behind two other child windows.

Could the trackpad not be automatically made WS_Topmost?

Also, I accidentally clicked the same item a second time and got an index out of bounds error. But I could not make this happen a second time

Sorry if it is just me doing something silly!

Of course, now I know how it works, I know how to avoid it next time, but the above does seem to be the default action on my system.

Sorry to sound like I am moaning again...


Best wishes,

Howard

posted: 3 Apr 2014 19:55

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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JFS wrote:
Sorry to sound like I am moaning again...
Hi Howard,

Not at all, I need to know these things. Thanks for reporting it.

In any event I didn't know you had been moaning previously. :)

However, I can't duplicate that problem here. Can you say something about your system and graphics card? Your screenshots seem to be capturing the screen canvas instead of the trackpad canvas.

It seems that you have a nice large screen, so you can solve the problem by dragging the storage box and file viewer windows over to the right. They can also be resized and/or scaled down if necessary.

I need to know if others are seeing this behaviour? Anyone? If so I can hide the offending windows while the screenshots are generated and restore them afterwards.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 3 Apr 2014 21:02

from:

Paul Boyd
 
Loughborough - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin

This is a stunning new feature - I missed this thread whilst my domain registrar was blocking you, but I would have most definitely put my hand up for this!  Anyway, I'm not sure how to break this to you gently, so here goes...

105_031547_210000000.png105_031547_210000000.png

I opened Templot then went straight to the preview file menu (no difference whether this is from the storage box or program panel).  When I click on a folder, there's an awful lot of redrawing going on in the top left (mostly buried) window then your favourite error shows up.  The number in the brackets in the error message seems to be fairly random.  There is some good news from your perspective though - when I installed Templot in C:\TEMPLOT_DEV (like what you keep telling us to :D) it all works fine.  However, I really would like this to work in my Skydrive folder if at all possible.  Please!!  Actually, it does work if I click past the error box.

Cheers

posted: 3 Apr 2014 21:06

from:

Paul Boyd
 
Loughborough - United Kingdom

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By the way, the trackpad window in my screenshot above was shrunk to that size when I opened the file viewer. Is that intentional behaviour? That doesn't seem to have happened in Howard's screenshot (although I note the dreaded mention of THAT error again, and Howard has installed it where he was told to :D )

Cheers

posted: 3 Apr 2014 21:45

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Paul Boyd wrote:
The number in the brackets in the error message seems to be fairly random.  There is some good news from your perspective though - when I installed Templot in C:TEMPLOT_DEV (like what you keep telling us to :D) it all works fine.  However, I really would like this to work in my Skydrive folder if at all possible.  Please!!  Actually, it does work if I click past the error box.
Hi Paul,

Thanks for the report. I made the "List index out of bounds" error especially for you. :)

Seriously, I have spent many hours testing here without seeing that. :(

I don't insist on C:\TEMPLOT_DEV\ -- you can put it anywhere you like on your computer provided it is in a folder created by you. It's handy to put it on a USB stick so you can move it from one computer to another and have all your files included with it.

If the problem occurs in one folder and not another it must be a timing issue. What is a Skydrive folder? Is it a real location on the drive or another one of Windows dreaded virtual folders, with the actual contents scattered all over the place? Why do you want to put Templot in it?

regards,

Martin.

posted: 4 Apr 2014 00:27

from:

Godfrey Earnshaw
 
Crawley - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin

first of all, Thank You.
I've started looking at it and it does seem to do what I wanted.
Here are my first experiences:
It seems to take a long time to load.
I've had error messages saying it coudn't find the file(s) I requested ???
I've had the index message on several occasions.

Cheers Godders

posted: 4 Apr 2014 06:01

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Godfrey Earnshaw wrote:
It seems to take a long time to load.
I've had error messages saying it coudn't find the file(s) I requested ???
I've had the index message on several occasions.
Hi Godders,

Thanks for the report. :(

It seems that this needs further work. Not for the first time, something which works fine here doesn't work everywhere -- or anywhere? -- else.

What do you call a long time? I am seeing 100 .box files load in about 20 seconds, although they mostly (not all) contain only a handful of templates. Without any error messages. That seems quite fast to me, but I know it may seem slow if you are used to everything happening in an instant. You can speed things up a lot by changing to skeleton settings before using the viewer (unless you need to see the timbering of course).

I will have another look at this. At present the screenshots are created as files -- I suspect it may be anti-virus software delaying their creation. Also files in virtual folders and cloud-connected folders will be much slower, which is something I didn't anticipate being used. Using files keeps memory usage down and makes it possible to restore the viewer across sessions via the program preferences (intended but not yet implemented). I will change tack and see if the whole thing can be done in memory, which should be a lot faster.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 4 Apr 2014 06:48

from:

JFS
 
United Kingdom

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Hello Martin,

Just looking at Paul's screen grab above, it looks like on his system, the windows all position themselves pretty well as they do on my system, yet he gets the correct result - unlike me!

I am running Win 7 (64bit). Screen res is a fairly modest 1920 x 1200.
Processors are Intel i7 Dual Core, 2.3gHz, NVIDIA Geforce GTX 770M, It is actually a brand new machine so I might have a look at updating the video drivers - though I have not had any other issues.

Hope that helps.

Good Luck!

Howard.

EDIT:- PS Just to mention (in response to Paul's point) that I grabbed my screen after the image creation and after the Track Pad had restored itself.  Whilst the previewing was going on, my set-up looked just like his.
Last edited on 4 Apr 2014 06:52 by JFS
posted: 4 Apr 2014 08:22

from:

Jim Guthrie
 
United Kingdom

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Martin,

The file preview worked fine for me on my file folder of 131 files. I didn't put a stopwatch on it but it took about 55 seconds to index the files.

It's a four year old machine running Win7 on a large monitor at 1920 x 1080 resolution on an ATI Radeon HD 5700 card. The processor is a 2.67 gigahertz Intel Core i5 750 with 12GB of memory.

One small comment. Is it possible to automatically hide template names when doing the search. Template names show by default when we start up Templot and if you do your file search straight after opening up, you get the template names on everything and they tend to get in the way if you're trying to note slight differences in a formation, and you can't do anything about them except do another preview run with the template labels turned off. :D

But otherwise an excellent addition which saves a lot of search time.

Jim.
Last edited on 4 Apr 2014 08:24 by Jim Guthrie
posted: 4 Apr 2014 10:11

from:

Godfrey Earnshaw
 
Crawley - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin, noticed you overslept again HaHaHa

I'm running Windows 7 Enterprise 32 bit on an Intel Core2 quad cpu @ 2.4GHz with 4GB RAM.

I have just timed the loading of 1 folder with 230 files, it took 1min 57secs. This is a reasonable speed.

However, a couple of things stand out.

All files of the last selected folder are loaded before giving the opportunity to select which folder one actually wishes to look at. I do not see why you have elected to load all the files in a folder surely the file selected would be enough. When loading all files are drawn on the Templot screen, doesn't this slow down the loading process.

BTW going to skeleton settings had no obvious effect on loading speed.

Apologies if you think I am being over critical. What you have provided is more than adequate and I thank you and appreciate your effort very much.

Cheers Godders. Now, less slacking and get up earlier. LOL :thumb:

posted: 4 Apr 2014 11:32

from:

Paul Boyd
 
Loughborough - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin

Thanks for the report. I made the "List index out of bounds" error especially for you. :)
Thank you :D
If the problem occurs in one folder and not another it must be a timing issue. What is a Skydrive folder? Is it a real location on the drive or another one of Windows dreaded virtual folders, with the actual contents scattered all over the place? Why do you want to put Templot in it?
As far as I know, the Skydrive folder is a real folder, not a virtual one.  I've been caught a few times with virtual folders having contents not where I thought they were.  Anything stored in there is automatically synced to the Cloud and any other computer with the same Skydrive credentials.  It means, for instance, that I can be working on Templot on my desktop, then just carry on with my laptop elsewhere with all the same files and settings, or get access to these files at work through the Skydrive website.  Unlike the old Live Mesh, we can no longer choose which folders are synced - we now have to put anything we want synced into that folder.  I also use Skydrive (actually now renamed to OneDrive) for various other bits and pieces as well.  When I get home I'll try copying Templot into another folder off C:UsersPaul to see if I get the same problem.  I can't help notice though that this error isn't confined to me :)
Also files in virtual folders and cloud-connected folders will be much slower, which is something I didn't anticipate being used.
In my case, the files are local but copied to the Cloud so there's no noticable speed difference.  I can see this being a problem with Windows 8, for instance, where the ludicrous default is to store the folders on the Cloud instead of locally.

Cheers
Last edited on 4 Apr 2014 11:38 by Paul Boyd
posted: 4 Apr 2014 11:35

from:

Paul Boyd
 
Loughborough - United Kingdom

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Hi Godfrey
All files of the last selected folder are loaded before giving the opportunity to select which folder one actually wishes to look at. I do not see why you have elected to load all the files in a folder surely the file selected would be enough.

Unless I've misunderstood what you're saying, that's one of the things that makes the whole thing very useful.  Being able to scroll down a visual list of each file, and seeing the differences, is absolutely brilliant!  Yes, it takes a little time, but this is a hobby :cool:

posted: 4 Apr 2014 12:06

from:

Brian Nicholls
 
Poole - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin,

The File Preview works absolutely fine on my system.  :thumb:

Windows 7 Professional 64 bit OS  Service pack 1.

Processor:     AMD A8-5600K APU with Radeon HD Graphics; 3.60 GHz 

Memory:      16 GB.

Graphics Card:    Radeon HD 7700 series Graphics

Browser:  Internet Explorer 11

Monitor:     HP 2510 at resolution  1920 x 1080.

It took 21 seconds to load in 46 project files in one folder, which were then ready to view.:)

Another great triumph Martin, well done,  :thumb::thumb:

All the best,

Brian.

posted: 4 Apr 2014 12:10

from:

Godfrey Earnshaw
 
Crawley - United Kingdom

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Paul Boyd wrote:
Hi Godfrey
All files of the last selected folder are loaded before giving the opportunity to select which folder one actually wishes to look at. I do not see why you have elected to load all the files in a folder surely the file selected would be enough.

Unless I've misunderstood what you're saying, that's one of the things that makes the whole thing very useful.  Being able to scroll down a visual list of each file, and seeing the differences, is absolutely brilliant!  Yes, it takes a little time, but this is a hobby :cool:
Hi Paul,I agree with you that it is an excellent tool. However, my main concern was that all files in the last selected folder loaded, even though that was not the folder I wanted to see. Additionally most of the time I only need to see the contents of an individual file, so why load everything in a folder. The time isn't really the issue just perhaps the unnecessary use of resources. I agree it's a hobby and I think you will see from my correspondence I have the utmost respect for Martyn. My comments are merely my view of the implementation, no criticism is implied, after all we are doing the easy bit.
Cheers Godders 

posted: 4 Apr 2014 12:16

from:

Jim Guthrie
 
United Kingdom

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Martin Wynne wrote:
If the problem occurs in one folder and not another it must be a timing issue. What is a Skydrive folder? Is it a real location on the drive or another one of Windows dreaded virtual folders, with the actual contents scattered all over the place? Why do you want to put Templot in it?
 
I also have Templot files in a SkyDrive folder - copied from the .BOX subfolder in my Templot installation on my G: drive.   It is a genuine folder on the hard drive but is synchronised with the SkyDrive cloud.    I have just tried a file preview on these files and it worked just as well as doing it on the "normal" .BOX file folder in the G: drive.

Jim.

posted: 4 Apr 2014 12:29

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Jim Guthrie wrote:
I also have Templot files in a SkyDrive folder - copied from the .BOX subfolder in my Templot installation on my G: drive.   It is a genuine folder on the hard drive but is synchronised with the SkyDrive cloud.    I have just tried a file preview on these files and it worked just as well as doing it on the "normal" .BOX file folder in the G: drive.
Thanks Jim.

I think Paul's problem is that he has Templot itself installed in the Skydrive folder, so the screenshot files are being created in there. I'm thinking that you haven't done that?

Whatever, there are too many reports of issues so I will have a rethink on the whole thing.

Thanks for all the comments. :)

Godders, if you just want to see what is in a single file, just reload it in the usual way. You can quickly swap back to what you had before by clicking the main > undo clear/reload menu item. I will change the wording on that to make it a bit less ambiguous.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 4 Apr 2014 12:45

from:

Godfrey Earnshaw
 
Crawley - United Kingdom

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Martin Wynne wrote:
Godders, if you just want to see what is in a single file, just reload it in the usual way. You can quickly swap back to what you had before by clicking the main > undo clear/reload menu item. I will change the wording on that to make it a bit less ambiguous.

regards,

Martin.
Hi Martin,
I think we are getting crossed here. I like what you have done. However, it has gone much further than my original request which was to be able to preview a file before loading. If I understand you correctly I think you are suggesting that I ignore your new provision. The more I use the preview the more I like it but my feeling is that the loading of all files on selection of folder each time is unnecessary as is the showing of them loading in the background.
I have tried the Main>undo clear/reload and that is certainly not what I want but I do appreciate learning about it.
Cheers Godders

posted: 4 Apr 2014 12:58

from:

Godfrey Earnshaw
 
Crawley - United Kingdom

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Hi Martyn

Solved it, the problem was I had lots of files, in Templot_dev>Box-Files folder, waiting to be sorted into their various sub-folders. Now I've actually sorted them I don't get them all automatically loaded until I select the relevant sub-folder.

Much Happier

Cheers Godders:D:thumb:

posted: 4 Apr 2014 13:19

from:

Brian Nicholls
 
Poole - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin,

When Godders first posted his "wish it would ....  regarding the preveiew", and I read the message, my first thoughts were, will it really be of any use, and maybe take up and waste a lot of your valuable time in coding the change, but now having seem the result, I think it would be a great aid to Templot2 users, for finding there lost files in a forest of data on there hard drives (or where ever).

I personally could find it a great use for this, as like Godders, I tend to have a great many files dotted around in various places.

I would hope that the issues are not too formidable that you decide to remove the option, as I feel it would be a loss of a useful facility.

From my own personal view, the option works well on my system, and I do not use "Cloud" storage methods, as I like to keep things of this nature completely in house.

My solution to mass storage of files is to use external hard drives, as they are, these days, quite cheap.

I use, 3 TB external hard drives, and is all you need to do is to plug it in to a mains power source, then insert  the USB cable onto your PC, it then takes about 15-20 seconds for the drive to run up to speed, and then you are ready to go.  You can then leave the drive connected as long as you like, so no run up time thereafter.

Access time, either downloading or up loading files onto the external drive, is not significantly any slower than the access time to or from the internal hard drives.

So Martin, I hope you do not discard this facility, it would be a great pity.  :(

All the best,

Brian.

posted: 4 Apr 2014 14:05

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Brian Nicholls wrote:
So Martin, I hope you do not discard this facility, it would be a great pity.  :(
Hi Brian,

No intention of discarding it -- I find it much too useful myself. :)  Which is why I went ahead with it and I'm very grateful to Godfrey for suggesting it.

But we can't have "List index out of bounds" popping up all over the place on some systems, it makes Templot look buggy and mystifies the onlookers. :)

Also I think Howard's problem may be related to using NVidia Geforce graphics, rather than ATI Radeon.

So it needs further work. I will keep what's there now as an option, and create an additional version with some changes as a trial.

I will also add a confirm dialog with an option to "show first 40 files only" say, if the folder turns out to contain hundreds of files. I provided the STOP button for that situation, but it would be better to be warned in advance that it is going to take a long time. The dialog can also include a suggestion to split the files into sub-folders.

The actual time depends on how many templates are in each file, so a limit based on the total number of templates processed would be more logical -- but difficult to explain.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 4 Apr 2014 14:50

from:

Godfrey Earnshaw
 
Crawley - United Kingdom

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Martin Wynne wrote:

Also I think Howard's problem may be related to using NVidia Geforce graphics, rather than ATI Radeon.


regards,

Martin.
Hi Martin
I use a  NVIDIA Geforce 210 graphics card. I don't seem to have any problems at all now.
Cheers Godders

posted: 4 Apr 2014 15:06

from:

Godfrey Earnshaw
 
Crawley - United Kingdom

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Hi Martyn

in >BOX_FILES, selected >BOX_FILES>Sub-Folder, realised I had selected wrong Sub-Folder, immediately re-selected >BOX_FILES.

Result "List index out of bounds(4)". tried it over and over again same result exactly.

Cheers Godders

posted: 4 Apr 2014 15:23

from:

Paul Boyd
 
Loughborough - United Kingdom

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Hi Brian
From my own personal view, the option works well on my system, and I do not use "Cloud" storage methods, as I like to keep things of this nature completely in house. My solution to mass storage of files is to use external hard drives, as they are, these days, quite cheap.
I think you've misunderstood what the Cloud storage is all about - it's not intended for backup or mass storage.  In fact, far from it because if you accidentally delete a synced file locally, it will faithfully be deleted from the Cloud storage.  My files are all "in house" but synced to the Cloud (SkyDrive, in my case) with no intervention on my part.  They're hardly sensitive files so even if someone else somehow got hold of them, the world won't end.  What it allows me to do is to access and work with the exact same files anywhere.  As I gave as an example before, I can work at home on my desktop PC, take my laptop elsewhere and just carry on working from exactly where I left off.  My backups are to external hard drives, which, as you say, are very cheap these days.

Anyway, that's a digression!  This preview is a wonderful facility so let's help Martin to fix it :D

Cheers


posted: 4 Apr 2014 15:59

from:

Judi R
 
Sutton-on-Sea - United Kingdom

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Getting back to the original thread ...

I have just found this release and have installed it on my ancient machine running Win XP. I found the Preview option and I get all my trackplans obscured by the viewer box, as attached:

If I drag this box to the corner of the screen, only the first few are obscured, the rest are visible.

I am very happy with the speed of loading.

Judi R



Attachment: attach_1809_2404_box_file_view_result.jpg     284
Last edited on 4 Apr 2014 16:00 by Judi R
posted: 4 Apr 2014 19:06

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Godfrey Earnshaw wrote:
Hi Martyn

in >BOX_FILES, selected >BOX_FILES>Sub-Folder, realised I had selected wrong Sub-Folder, immediately re-selected >BOX_FILES.

Result "List index out of bounds(4)". tried it over and over again same result exactly.

Cheers Godders
Hi Godders,

Many thanks for that. I forgot to allow for the folder being changed while the screenshots are still being created. Easily fixed. :)

regards,

Martin.

posted: 4 Apr 2014 19:07

from:

Simon Dunkley
 
Oakham - United Kingdom

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Godfrey Earnshaw wrote:
Hi Martyn

in >BOX_FILES, selected >BOX_FILES>Sub-Folder, realised I had selected wrong Sub-Folder, immediately re-selected >BOX_FILES.

Result "List index out of bounds(4)". tried it over and over again same result exactly.

Cheers Godders

Nice work, Martin!

I get the above problem, too, if I change to a sub-folder whilst the preview images are building.

Also, once I have used the preview facility, I find that the Information panel is no longer visible, no matter what I do.

I am using Templot within a Wine bottle, via crossover.

Simon

posted: 4 Apr 2014 21:31

from:

Paul Boyd
 
Loughborough - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin
Many thanks for that. I forgot to allow for the folder being changed while the screenshots are still being created. Easily fixed. :)
It looks like Godfrey has found it!  I've just done various installs in various locations with and without previous preferences saved and consistently got the error, but if I waited for the screenshots to finish, all was well.  It does highlight the fact that I need to tidy up the box files in the root of BOX-FILES to save the redraws every time I go back to the "home" folder.

Looking forward to to the next release :D  They don't seem to be called PUGs these days!

Cheers



posted: 4 Apr 2014 21:36

from:

Godfrey Earnshaw
 
Crawley - United Kingdom

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Simon Dunkley wrote:


I am using Templot within a Wine bottle, via crossover.

Simon
Hi Simon,
I'm not sure about the crossover but using Templot within a Wine bottle certainly appeals:thumb:

Cheers Godders

posted: 4 Apr 2014 21:39

from:

Godfrey Earnshaw
 
Crawley - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin

If this tool does nothing else it's already "encouraged" me to clean up my files, I've got rid of dozens already.

Thanks Godders

posted: 4 Apr 2014 21:57

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Paul Boyd wrote:
Looking forward to to the next release :D  They don't seem to be called PUGs these days!
Hi Paul,

PUG was a "pilot up-grade" version, the difference being that it required the release version to be installed first. Or at least it did in theory.

Now all releases are equal. :)

regards,

Martin.

posted: 4 Apr 2014 22:05

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Simon Dunkley wrote:
Also, once I have used the preview facility, I find that the Information panel is no longer visible, no matter what I do.

I am using Templot within a Wine bottle, via crossover.
Hi Simon,

It should restore automatically when you close the file viewer. Try pressing F2 or trackpad > show information panel menu item.

If still no joy, that is a Wine problem, although it is working ok for me in Ubuntu/Wine.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 4 Apr 2014 22:19

from:

Simon Dunkley
 
Oakham - United Kingdom

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Martin Wynne wrote:
Try pressing F2 or trackpad > show information panel menu item.

If still no joy, that is a Wine problem, although it is working ok for me in Ubuntu/Wine.

Hi Martin,

I tried both of those last night: neither worked.

It may not be Crossover: it may simply be the way I installed it!

Simon
Last edited on 4 Apr 2014 22:21 by Simon Dunkley
posted: 9 Apr 2014 06:49

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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I have done a bit more work on the file viewer. I will upload a new version here shortly. In the meantime, since no-one ever clicks the ? help button :), here are the notes:

2_090146_040000000.png2_090146_040000000.png

Martin.

posted: 9 Apr 2014 07:34

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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edit: file deleted. Now in 209a: topic 1500

Here is a new version of the file viewer to try. This now uses memory for the screenshots instead of files, and hides the distracting activity behind the viewer.

There are a few new features:

1. click the tags link to see all the template name prefix tags used in the file (greyed out if there are none).

2. you can choose whether to include the name labels in the screenshots (changing this setting refreshes the list).

3. you can use  SPACE, SHIFT+SPACE, HOME, END  keys to jump up and down the list one file at a time, in addition to normal scrolling -- e.g. hold down the SPACE bar for rapid scrolling.


2_090211_520000003.png2_090211_520000003.png


If the folder contains more than 60 files you see this, but you can turn it off:

2_090211_520000002.png2_090211_520000002.png




You can revert to using files for the screenshots if you prefer, but you need to have a reason to do so:

2_090211_520000000.png2_090211_520000000.png

2_090211_520000001.png2_090211_520000001.png



Download 208e file below. This is something of a beta version, so please give it a good bashing and let me know any issues. :) Thanks.

The only changes from 208d are in this file viewer function.

Changing to using memory for the screenshots means that it will not now be possible to have the file viewer list preserved across sessions without a refresh.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 9 Apr 2014 08:21

from:

Godfrey Earnshaw
 
Crawley - United Kingdom

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Morning Martin

Template Name Labels - doesn't seem to bring labels on for all .box files


Tags - is always "greyed out"

Bye for Now

Godders

posted: 9 Apr 2014 08:25

from:

Godfrey Earnshaw
 
Crawley - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin

Reading "Help" file reveals the reason for "tags" being "Greyed out"

Godders

posted: 9 Apr 2014 09:18

from:

Charles Orr
 
Leicester - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin
That works very well for me.
(Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit, GeForce 480 graphics card, 6Gb RAM)
Can't seem to find any glitches.
Best regardsCharles

posted: 9 Apr 2014 10:26

from:

Jim Guthrie
 
United Kingdom

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Martin,

The new version works well and seems to be slightly quicker on my system with 131 files in the folder - ~50 seconds to generate the list against ~55 seconds for the previous version. I note the option to allow selection/or not of name labels, which I welcome.

Another small suggestion. :) Is it possible to have a "GO" button. At the moment, when you call up the Preview facility and it is already pointing at a ".box" file folder, it starts off on its own accord before you get a chance to make a selection of facilities. If you want to change the folder, or set the LABEL or IMAGE tick boxes, you have to hit ESC to stop the running list generation. Maybe it would be possible to make the REFRESH LIST button a GO/REFRESH LIST button.

Jim.

posted: 9 Apr 2014 10:39

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Godfrey Earnshaw wrote:
Template Name Labels - doesn't seem to bring labels on for all .box files
Hi Godders,

Thanks for the reply.

The name labels are omitted when zooming out means that they would be too small to be readable. Templot has been that way from the beginning. :)

You can make them appear always, by changing to trackpad > trackpad background options > background name labels > full-size menu option. However, you will probably find that they then obscure one another so much as to be unreadable. Changing to the transparent option helps a bit, or a smaller font -- like this (font size 6):

2_090539_200000000.png2_090539_200000000.png

regards,

Martin.

posted: 9 Apr 2014 10:45

from:

Godfrey Earnshaw
 
Crawley - United Kingdom

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Thanks Martin

That's fine it's not a problem I just thought it was inconsistent.

On Jim's point, I find it about double his for the same amount of files but presumably it depends on other factors such as file size, so it's not easy to compare by file numbers only total amount of data.

Cheers Godders

posted: 9 Apr 2014 11:12

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Godfrey Earnshaw wrote:
On Jim's point, I find it about double his for the same amount of files but presumably it depends on other factors such as file size, so it's not easy to compare by file numbers only total amount of data.
Hi Jim, Godders,

That's right. In fact the number of files is largely irrelevant -- it is the total length of all the templates in all the files which determines the time taken, because Templot has to draw them all to create the screenshots. So 50 files with only 5 short templates in each file will likely be faster than a single file if it contains a large complex layout.

The trick is to organize your files into smaller sub-folders. If you click the find link you can then see the file in Windows, create a sub-folder if necessary, and drag the file into it.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 9 Apr 2014 11:53

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Jim Guthrie wrote:
Another small suggestion. :) Is it possible to have a "GO" button. At the moment, when you call up the Preview facility and it is already pointing at a ".box" file folder, it starts off on its own accord before you get a chance to make a selection of facilities. If you want to change the folder, or set the LABEL or IMAGE tick boxes, you have to hit ESC to stop the running list generation. Maybe it would be possible to make the REFRESH LIST button a GO/REFRESH LIST button.
Hi Jim,

Thanks. I will look at this again.

My working assumption for established Templot users was that you would have only a few files in the root starting  C:\TEMPLOT_DEV\BOX-FILES\  folder with most of your projects in sub-folders.

You can return to the file viewer without generating a refresh of the list, until you change folders.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 9 Apr 2014 18:01

from:

Godfrey Earnshaw
 
Crawley - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin

Sorry to be a pain but is it possible for the file to retain its name when saving. With the aid of this new tool I can now see easily that a lot of my files are massive. This was caused by my lack of knowledge, mainly in the beginning, which lead to unused templates not being deleted.

So, I have now started cleaning up the files but when I save them I cannot see the file name and have to abort the process so I can try and find it's original name again.

It's another, "wouldn't it be nice to have" and I won't expire due to the stress of not having it.

Cheers Godders

posted: 9 Apr 2014 18:37

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Godfrey Earnshaw wrote:
Sorry to be a pain but is it possible for the file to retain its name when saving.
Hi Godders,

Briefly, no.

Templot doesn't use the Windows Document Model and never will. There is too much risk that wanted data will be inadvertently overwritten. It also makes it confusing when combining data from several files.

What you do instead is:

1. save a NEW file. Templot suggests a name based on the storage box title and the date and time. You can change it to whatever you want.

2. when you are quite sure you don't want it, delete the old file. In the meantime I strongly recommend simply moving it to an "obsolete files" folder rather than deleting it.

Of course you can choose to overwrite an old file when saving if you really must. You can find its name on the top line of the storage box:

2_091330_550000000.png2_091330_550000000.png

If you use the save all... button on the storage box, that line will still be visible for reference behind the Windows file dialog.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 9 Apr 2014 19:07

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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edit: file removed. now in 209a: topic 1500

Jim Guthrie wrote:
Another small suggestion. :) Is it possible to have a "GO" button. At the moment, when you call up the Preview facility and it is already pointing at a ".box" file folder, it starts off on its own accord before you get a chance to make a selection of facilities. If you want to change the folder, or set the LABEL or IMAGE tick boxes, you have to hit ESC to stop the running list generation.
Hi Jim,

Here you go, try 208f attached below.

The button caption is "show files" when no files are showing, and "refresh list" when they are.

For myself I'm not convinced and find it irritating to have to click the button every time. But I welcome comments. :)

regards,

Martin.

posted: 9 Apr 2014 21:39

from:

Paul Boyd
 
Loughborough - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin
For myself I'm not convinced and find it irritating to have to click the button every time.
I'm with you on that.  It makes it very clunky to use whereas previously it was a nice smooth process to quickly zip through various folders.  It also seems to be mouse only, and I'm paranoid about unnecessary mouse clicks! (RSI issues)

I don't see the problem in letting it start working on all the files in the folder, provided it's possible to change the folder or set the options whilst it's doing this. (without generating List Index errors, of course!)

Cheers

posted: 9 Apr 2014 23:17

from:

Godfrey Earnshaw
 
Crawley - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin

I'll try again on the assumption that I didn't explain exactly what I meant.

I will not assume that you are one of those developers that sees a red mist when they think Microsoft is being involved in any way.

I am very happy with the way that Templot normally saves it's files with a name and a time stamp.

If I start Templot, open an existing file, edit that file and then save it I am presented with the folder and the file ready to save with it's original name and a new time stamp.

However, if I load the file from the file viewer and edit the file and then save from there the existing name is replaced by a random name plus a time stamp.

I have to abort the save because I can't , at that point, remember the name of the file I opened and have to go back to the storage box to see it, write it down and rename it when I save.
Hope this is a better explanation.

Cheers Godders
Last edited on 9 Apr 2014 23:24 by Godfrey Earnshaw
posted: 10 Apr 2014 03:43

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Godfrey Earnshaw wrote:
I'll try again on the assumption that I didn't explain exactly what I meant.
Hi Godders,

You explained earlier exactly what you want and the answer is still no. :)

There is no difference between the code which reloads files via the file viewer or via a normal reload or via the recent files list.

When saving .box data Templot suggests a new file name based on the title of the storage box and the current date/time. The title of the storage box can be changed (after reloading a file) at edit > box title... menu item. The suggested file name can be changed to whatever you want when saving.

You are asking for Templot to follow the Windows Document Model where a previous file is automatically overwritten when you click Save. The answer is no and will always be no.

I have to abort the save because I can't , at that point, remember the name of the file I opened and have to go back to the storage box to see it, write it down and rename it when I save.
There is no need to write it down -- see my previous reply. If you save via the storage box using either the files > save all... menu item or the save all... button, you can see the name of the last loaded file on the top line of the storage box behind the Windows file dialog. If not, drag the storage box to the top of the screen first.

However, I strongly advise you not to re-use that name otherwise it will end in grief one day. You will lose some valued data. Always create a new file with a new name when saving anything from Templot. Delete the old files only when the project is complete, or when you are quite sure that all your required data has already been saved elsewhere.
 
regards,

Martin.

posted: 10 Apr 2014 08:06

from:

Jim Guthrie
 
United Kingdom

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Paul Boyd wrote:
Hi Martin
For myself I'm not convinced and find it irritating to have to click the button every time.
I'm with you on that.  It makes it very clunky to use whereas previously it was a nice smooth process to quickly zip through various folders.  It also seems to be mouse only, and I'm paranoid about unnecessary mouse clicks! (RSI issues)

Paul, Martin,

Maybe it's me coming from my programming background where,  if I presented a dialog with options,  then I allowed a user the chance to set/change the options before the process started. :D   At the moment I seem to be like most users and store all my files in the default .BOX folder but if we all split our files into sub folders as Martin recommends,  there will be a lot more options at start up than just the "name label" and "image clickable" ones.  :D

Jim.

posted: 10 Apr 2014 08:58

from:

Godfrey Earnshaw
 
Crawley - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin

You are jumping to the wrong conclusion and selectively answering what you perceive to be my question.

You quoted me as follows:

Godfrey Earnshaw wrote:

"Sorry to be a pain but is it possible for the file to retain its name when saving."

So far so good, I did actually write that. However, I was actually basing my request not on Microsoft but on the old DEC system where a file was given a name, "Jack Spratt minutes of meeting", which it retained throughout it's life and many versions. The file was then stored, along with a time stamp. Each time it was edited the original filename, "Jack Spratt minutes of meeting", was retained but it was given a new time stamp, in a similar format to the way Templot does, except Templot truncates the "Name".

I would never advocate the "Microsoft" way of overwriting older versions of a file.

What I have done is take advantage of the modern longer than 8 character name and given a brief explanation of my changes in the filename e.g. "Bristol_Parkway_00SF_with_fiddleyard"

However, with the new "Read Me" facility this is no longer a necessity.

Hope this convinces you I'm not the "Red under the bed" Microsoft monster.:shock:

Cheers Godders
Last edited on 10 Apr 2014 09:11 by Godfrey Earnshaw
posted: 10 Apr 2014 09:45

from:

Paul Boyd
 
Loughborough - United Kingdom

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Hi Godfrey

I think you've misunderstood why Templot saves its files the way it does.  Perhaps the easiest way to explain it, and the way I think of it, is that a box file is just a collection of templates (bits).  When you're working on a plan, you can open up just one box of bits or you can choose to build up your plan from several boxes of bits.  What I'm trying to get at is that you're not necessarily working with a file as such, but opening one or more boxes of bits to work on an overall plan.

For instance, you might have a pretty good plan for a station in one box of bits but you're still undecided on the goods yard layout so you have several different versions of goods yards in other boxes of bits.  You open up the station box, then decide which particular goods yard you want and add that box in to see what it looks like.

I'm not at all sure if that makes it clearer or not, and I'm sure Martin could explain it better!

I hope this helps!

posted: 10 Apr 2014 09:57

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Godfrey Earnshaw wrote:

"Sorry to be a pain but is it possible for the file to retain its name when saving."

So far so good, I did actually write that. However, I was actually basing my request not on Microsoft but on the old DEC system where a file was given a name, "Jack Spratt minutes of meeting", which it retained throughout it's life and many versions. The file was then stored, along with a time stamp. Each time it was edited the original filename, "Jack Spratt minutes of meeting", was retained but it was given a new time stamp, in a similar format to the way Templot does, except Templot truncates the "Name".
Hi Godders,

In which case I'm not clear what you are asking?

In Templot you cannot "edit" a file. Templot disregards the file name once the templates have been loaded from it and does not retain any knowledge of where they came from, other than the working folder location. The "name" part of the suggested file name is stored within the file itself as the box title, it is not taken from the file name.

This page explains more, if you have not seen it:

 http://templot.com/companion/index.html?gs_baffled.htm#files

May I suggest that after loading one of your old files, you set the box title to "Bristol Parkway in 00-SF with fiddle yard", make any template changes you want, and then save a new file with the file name suggested by Templot? On the storage box, that's at edit > box title... menu item.

Hope this convinces you I'm not the "Red under the bed" Microsoft monster.
You have rather lost me with these "red" references to Microsoft. :?

I'm not keen on Microsoft software and make very little use of it myself. I have no copy of "Office" or any of its components on my systems for example. But the relevance of this to file saving in Templot is not clear.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 10 Apr 2014 10:00

from:

Paul Boyd
 
Loughborough - United Kingdom

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Hi Jim
Maybe it's me coming from my programming background where, if I presented a dialog with options, then I allowed a user the chance to set/change the options before the process started.
As a user, not a programmer, that's what I find irritating!  Why not just let the process start with default settings, then if the user changes those settings it starts again?  If the default settings are what the user wants, he gets his results quicker.  If he wants to change the settings, no additional time is involved than having to click a Start button.  That does presuppose that the settings can be changed whilst it's scanning the folder.
At the moment I seem to be like most users and store all my files in the default .BOX folder but if we all split our files into sub folders as Martin recommends, there will be a lot more options at start up than just the "name label" and "image clickable" ones.
I do store the majority of files in sub-folders, which is why the extra click every time you change folders is irritating, especially for those of us with RSI problems.  What are the extra options you envisage?  If anything, this file viewer has encouraged me to tidy things up even more, which has to be a good thing, doesn't it?

Cheers


posted: 10 Apr 2014 11:14

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Martin Wynne wrote:
The "name" part of the suggested file name is stored within the file itself as the box title, it is not taken from the file name.
Hi Godders,

And having written that, it is blindingly obvious that the full box title should be shown in the file viewer. I will do that shortly. Thanks for the nudge. :)

regards,

Martin.

posted: 10 Apr 2014 11:40

from:

Godfrey Earnshaw
 
Crawley - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin

Can I answer you in reverse order as they statements are easier to get out of the way from the bottom.

You are the one who keeps referring to Microsoft not me.

The "red" reference is from the way that the computing world reacts to Microsoft products. Half the developers I know hate Microsoft with a vengeance and your earlier reference to the, "Microsoft Way" lead me to believe that you are in that camp. My peculiar sense of humour links this with the way the Americans used to behave in the days of McCarthy (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism) where they became so paranoid that they believed there was a communist under their beds, hence "red under the bed" 

I am reading the companion section and am finding it a strange concept to come to grips with particularly where you say "you should save your work only when there is a good reason to do so". I'm working on this but I am grateful for you pointing it out.

You said
"May I suggest that after loading one of your old files, you set the box title to "Bristol Parkway in 00-SF with fiddle yard", make any template changes you want, and then save a new file with the file name suggested by Templot? On the storage box, that's at edit > box title... menu item." 

I have done this and it does what it wants:

Firstly, it truncates my entered title in the filename despite retaining my entered title in the Project Title Box. 

Secondly, it ignores the folder I was in and reverts to the Templot default of Templot-Dev/Box_Files/

Despite all this I still love Templot and am more than willing to accept it's (your) quirky ways. 

Cheers Godders  

PS I have just received a warning from John Hinson on "The Signal Box" forum regarding the, "Heartbleed Bug" virus are you aware of it? I can forward if you wish.
Last edited on 10 Apr 2014 11:51 by Godfrey Earnshaw
posted: 10 Apr 2014 12:39

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Godfrey Earnshaw wrote:
Firstly, it truncates my entered title in the filename despite retaining my entered title in the Project Title Box. 

Secondly, it ignores the folder I was in and reverts to the Templot default of Templot-Dev/Box_Files/
Hi Godders,

The truncation is to keep the file names within a sensible length. I could perhaps lengthen it a bit. It's useful to write the box title so that any changes are at the start -- e.g. "Shorter yard in Bristol...

You can of course edit the suggested file name to include more info if you wish.

After first saving a file to your specified folder it should go there again when saving another file. So you need to navigate to it only once. If it is not doing that it is a bug? However, the folder from which you loaded any files is not taken into account in this -- you may have added templates from files in many different locations.

It's important to bear in mind that when working in Templot that you do not have a file open. You are simply working on data. It's not part of any file. That only happens when you save it to one.

I'm aware of the "heartbleed" bug but I'm not getting paranoid just yet. :)

regards,

Martin.

posted: 22 Apr 2014 19:41

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Paul Boyd wrote:
Hi Jim
Maybe it's me coming from my programming background where, if I presented a dialog with options, then I allowed a user the chance to set/change the options before the process started.
As a user, not a programmer, that's what I find irritating!  Why not just let the process start with default settings, then if the user changes those settings it starts again?  If the default settings are what the user wants, he gets his results quicker.
Hi Paul,

It's impossible to please everyone! I just keep adding more and more option boxes: :)

2_221431_550000000.png2_221431_550000000.png

In the next program update. Maybe later tonight.

p.s. it's not possible to change the settings while the list is being created. You must press ESC first to stop the searching and wait for the buttons to become ungreyed.

regards,

Martin.



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