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topic: 2755Experimental Companion formats
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posted: 9 Oct 2015 10:29

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Hi all,

If you have a few minutes to spare you may like to have a look (in 212a) at the help > experimental Companion formats > menu items.

I have embedded 3 versions of the Templot Companion web site from

 http://templot.com/companion/

directly within the Templot program.

As you know there is very little actual content on there yet -- I am still experimenting with formats. I would welcome some feedback on how you find two of the formats, EXE and the simple viewer.

Unlike the web site, these are able to launch files directly -- specifically in this case the FBR video tutorials, and also other useful utilities that I may write such as the dpi-awareness swapper.

Which means the FBR videos can be directly included in the A-Z Index without needing to be downloaded and run from your browser.

At present they are temporarily linked in the program from the watch a video > menu item in no particular order. Which is ok pro-tem, but is not a long-term solution as the number of them grows.

I prefer the EXE version for ease of use, but unfortunately it won't run under Wine / CrossOver. So I have also created the simple viewer version which will run anywhere.

I have included the classic Windows CHM format simply for comparison with other Windows programs. It is not a viable solution because it doesn't provide file linking. Even if it did, I wouldn't want to use it because it is truly awful -- originally introduced, full of bugs, nearly 20 years ago with Windows98 and never changed since. Why Microsoft continue to provide this with Windows10, with no apparent intention to replace it, is something of a mystery. Presumably the idea is that everything in future will be done via the web.

After so many false starts over the years, I want to get it right this time. And never have to change it again. At present I favour EXE plus FBR video tutorials but welcome your feedback.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 9 Oct 2015 11:02

from:

JFS
 
United Kingdom

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Hello Martin,

Just had a quick play and all seem to work and would no doubt do the job. I suppose that, as much as anything, it comes down to which ever works easiest for you!

My only comment about the exe version was that it seemed to take an inordinately long time to "fire up" - even with AVAST disabled. After it had been run once it seemed to run much quicker. I don't know what it is or how it works, but I wonder if "security suites" might make for difficulties in running it on user's systems?

I sympathise with your comments on CHM but it does have the advantage that most people - well me then - are familiar with it and so it "seems" much easier to navigate. Having just this week used "proprietary" Help systems from Microsoft, Adobe, Autodesk.... they are a right royal PITA simply because they are all different to use!

Why it is included with WIN10 is simply for my personal benefit of course! Having spent yonks creating all my Help files for it years ago, I would be a bit miffed if my users could no longer access my Help files simply becuase they had clicked "I want me free upgrade" button. Say what you like about Windows, but they do pay attention to backward compatibility!.

Good luck with the new documentation - I for one don't envy you the task!

Best wishes,

Howard

posted: 9 Oct 2015 11:36

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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JFS wrote:
My only comment about the exe version was that it seemed to take an inordinately long time to "fire up" - even with AVAST disabled. After it had been run once it seemed to run much quicker. I don't know what it is or how it works, but I wonder if "security suites" might make for difficulties in running it on user's systems?
Hi Howard,

Thanks for your comments. The EXE format is a Windows executable file which contains the entire web site in compressed form. Like CHM it uses Internet Explorer as the page rendering engine, but doesn't make use of an internet connection to run. So anti-virus programs shouldn't be much concerned with it, apart from scanning it when first installed.

What do you call "an inordinately long time"? On my systems it launches in less than 2 seconds first time. The entire content does have to be unzipped, so that makes a bit of a delay.

The simple viewer loads each page file from disk as required, so can start up faster. It doesn't use the browser to display them, it is an integral part of Templot. But the navigation pane is not very user-friendly and would need a lot more work if this was adopted as the only format. At present I'm regarding it mainly as an alternative to EXE for Wine systems.

I wasn't suggesting that Microsoft should stop supporting CHM files -- it's great that Windows supports legacy software going back years (unlike Apple). But there is surely a case for a new modern Help format with the look and feel of their current software.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 9 Oct 2015 11:52

from:

JFS
 
United Kingdom

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Hello Martin,

Just trying it again, it took about 13 seconds (which is faster than it seemed last time)- the window opens straight away, then the rest of the time is no doubt preparing the content for display. Running it a second time takes about one second.

I say, "inordinately" not because 13 seconds is a apinfully long time, but recognising that "not all" of the intended content is yet there.

This machine is by no means my fastest, but it is quite decent by most people's standards.

Fully agree that a "better than CHM" would be a good thing - not least because it would reduce the excuse for the Big Boys to go their own way, as well as making life easier for you and me!!

Best wishes,

Howard

posted: 9 Oct 2015 11:57

from:

JFS
 
United Kingdom

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... just a quick thought - I notice that in my version of AutoCAD the "Help" appears instantly - but then the programme itself takes a number of minutes to load and fire up. Don't know about the practicalities, but perhaps loading the help exe with Templot would be better as people would be "expecting" to wait at that point?

Best wishes,

Howard
Last edited on 9 Oct 2015 11:58 by JFS
posted: 9 Oct 2015 12:45

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Hi Howard,

I'm puzzled what can be taking 13 seconds to load. :?

I have just done a Windows restart on my Windows7 system, which is nothing special speed-wise. The EXE window opened in 2 seconds and the first page appeared 1 second later.

On Windows10 on my Surface Pro tablet, from a cold start the window opens and first page appears instantly, it is not slow enough for me to time it.

Possibly you have your anti-virus set to scan executable files every time they are launched? Because the content is zipped, this might take longer than usual.

It is the EWriter format from EC Software, and Alex did warn that initial startups may be slow. Not finding that any problem myself I tended not to take much notice.

Anyone else seeing a slow start up with the EXE format? Any faster next time?

regards,

Martin.

posted: 9 Oct 2015 12:52

from:

JFS
 
United Kingdom

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Hello Martin,

This machine runs Windows 7, and as I say, it is a fairly quick machine. However, I think you are right about my AV scanning all exes - even though it is "disabled" (I find such things a pain configure - because the options seem to be very well hidden...). But I would have to say that normally when it is doing such a scan, the icon changes to say that which it did not this time - but then it is just showing "disabled" at the moment. I will have a further look and see what I can find out.

Cheers,

Howard

posted: 9 Oct 2015 13:00

from:

JFS
 
United Kingdom

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Hello Martin,

I can confirm that it is the Avast "Deep scan" which causes the delay. (it is less than 2 seconds when that feature is disabled). And it seems that simply disabling Avast, does not stopping doing somethings...
Options seem to limited to having Deep Scan Off or On, I can't find a "first time only" setting.

Best wishes,

Howard

posted: 9 Oct 2015 15:20

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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JFS wrote:
I can confirm that it is the Avast "Deep scan" which causes the delay.
Hi Howard,

Thanks for that. No doubt you are seeing the same thing with the FBR player, but it is a much smaller file, so shorter delay.

Another issue with the EXE format is that it is not dpi-aware, so looks fuzzy on hi-res systems. I have been nagging Alex at EC Software about this, but so far he is not inclined to do anything about it. Individual users can change it via the file compatibility settings, but so far I can't find a way to bypass the manifest programmatically.

There is also the problem that the usual IE keyboard shortcuts are not honoured, and the only way to zoom the text is using CTRL+ROLL on the mouse wheel.

All that could be avoided if I settle on the home-grown simple viewer format only, but there would be a lot of work needed to get the user interface more user-friendly. It does have the advantage that it could be made interactive -- click a "try this now" button to toggle the control template from equalized timbering to square-on, say.

Whenever I try to use an external component there is always a snag, and I end up writing my own equivalent. That's what happened with the file viewer for example.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 9 Oct 2015 20:55

from:

Charles Orr
 
Leicester - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin,

I would favour the exe format.

Opens within a second on my main  machine.

I have encountered no other problems. :)

Best regards

Charles



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