Templot Club Archive 2007-2020                             

topic: 3144Timber spacing for turnouts
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posted: 2 Dec 2017 20:01

from:

Z Gauge Tim
 
 

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Hello Martin, 
My name is Tim. I asked you about changing timber spacing for Z gauge turnouts on rmweb forum a few months ago. Unfortuntely I wasn't able to to figure out how to do it. I am not a native speaker and it's hard to understand what various menus actually mean. Could you please tell, which menu and which option should I choose to change timber spacing to 1.4 millimiters between edges? Thank you very much in advance. 

posted: 3 Dec 2017 09:43

from:

Phil O
 
Plymouth - United Kingdom

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Hi Tim

Have you tried "Google Translate"?

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=google+translate&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-ab&gfe_rd=cr&dcr=0&ei=msYjWvGjCcyGgAa-7bXIDg

type or paste in the English in the box and alter the other box to your native language.

Phil

posted: 3 Dec 2017 12:06

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Z Gauge Tim wrote:
I am not a native speaker and it's hard to understand what various menus actually mean. Could you please tell, which menu and which option should I choose to change timber spacing to 1.4 millimiters between edges? Thank you very much in advance.
Hi Tim,

Welcome to Templot Club. :)

The timbering data in Templot is based on the prototype dimensions (real railway sizes).

Generally the spacing is not constant. The various special chairs (rail fixings) must fit the rails in specific locations. Which means the timber positions must be adjusted to support them.

This page explains where to find the menu items for each section of a turnout:

 http://templot.com/companion/timber_spacings_overview.php


timber_spacings_899x436.pngtimber_spacings_899x436.png

Timber spacing is always specified from the centre of one timber to the centre of the next one, not by setting the gap between them.

For Z gauge the scale is 1:220. If the gap between them is 1.4mm, that means on the prototype it is 1.4 x 220 = 308mm. If your prototype timbers are say 250mm(?) wide, that means the centre-to-centre spacing would be 250 + 308 = 558mm, which is 22 inches.

So you would enter 22 inches centre-to-centre spacing.

Are you modelling American railways? Generally timbers are narrower than 250mm/10 inches, and typically at 21 inches spacing.

If you can post a drawing of your prototype track details, it will be easier to answer specifically about how to set it up in Templot.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 3 Dec 2017 17:26

from:

Z Gauge Tim
 
 

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Hi Martin and Phil, 

Thank you very much for your advice. 

I like Templot very much, I have already created templates for plain track and curves and I am very satisfied with the result. Martin, thank you very much for developing such kind of software. I can see it's a very powerfull tool indeed, but a little bit hard to learn. 

I am building my first Z gauge layout. It will be a very small and simple layout with only 6 turnouts. I have decided to use handlaid track as it's cheaper and looks better than commercially available tracks. The good looking appearance is achieved by prototypical timber spacing and Templot is a huge help here. In fact, I wouldn't be able to use handlaid track without Templot. Because Z gauge is very small I have decided to apply fixed timber spacing between all sections of the turnout.  

Like I mentioned, I am not a native speaker, although I know English well, it's hard to understand specific terms and options even if I use Google translate. I know there are 4 menus which I need to use to change timber spacing: switch section, closure section, wing rail, vee rail. But it's really hard to understand menu points without a picture explaining elements of the turnout since they are specific terms. 

Good news - I have done some experiments and I have achieved a good result. My timber spacing for a turnout is exactly what I need. The rest is done with the help of 'shove timbers' feature I suppose. 

I may still have further questions. Is there a feature which allows to bend the rail ends to align parallel tracks as shown on the screenshot?

Thank you very much for your help. 

 3445_031226_100000000.png3445_031226_100000000.png

posted: 3 Dec 2017 18:40

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Z Gauge Tim wrote:
I may still have further questions. Is there a feature which allows to bend the rail ends to align parallel tracks as shown on the screenshot?
Hi Tim,

There are two ways to do that. In both cases you will first need to extend the overall length of the turnout template using the F4 mouse action. Then:

1. click the real > V-crossing options > parallel V-crossing menu item.

or

2. click the tools > make return curve menu item.

In the first case it will be all one template, so you wouldn't be able to insert further turnouts in it. But you would be able to curve the whole thing in one go.

In the second case the return curve will be a separate template.

Make sure you have set your required track spacing at tools > adjacent track centres ... first.

regards,

Martin.



posted: 9 Dec 2017 18:28

from:

Z Gauge Tim
 
 

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Hi Martin, 
The result I am trying to achieve looks like this: 1.png
Turnout lenght is set to 100 mm, but I am only be able to get the result at V crossing angle set to 2, when I set to angle 3 and larger, I get a sharper angle, so I need to increase turnout length. Is there a way to bend the rails at the end with V crossing angle set to 3 without increasing turnout length? Or is it the only way?


Attachment: attach_2599_3144_1.png     408

posted: 9 Dec 2017 21:17

from:

Andrew Barrowman
 
USA

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Z Gauge Tim wrote:
Hi Martin, 
The result I am trying to achieve looks like this: 1.png
Turnout lenght is set to 100 mm, but I am only be able to get the result at V crossing angle set to 2, when I set to angle 3 and larger, I get a sharper angle, so I need to increase turnout length. Is there a way to bend the rails at the end with V crossing angle set to 3 without increasing turnout length? Or is it the only way?


Hi Tim,

Unfortunately the crossing angle is, to a great extent, determined by the length of the turnout. I'm sure martin will be able to give you a better explanation.

By the way, your English is excellent. It's probably better than mine (I'm in the USA :D)

Andy

posted: 9 Dec 2017 22:04

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Hi Tim,

We need a bit more information about the type of trains which you are planning to run. These very short turnouts are suitable only for trams (trolleys?) or cramped industrial sidings.

For these turnout sizes you need to change to a shorter switch, the one in your screenshot looks like an REA "A" switch. I suggest changing to the 9ft straight switch.

You can then get a return curve within 100mm at 1:2.75 angle, if you remove one timber from the switch front:

2_091652_370000000.png2_091652_370000000.png

But as you can see, the radius at 1:2.75 is down to a mere 3".

You could get it shorter, or an easier angle for the same length, by reducing the track centre-to-centre spacing. But that may not leave a running clearance for your trains.

It would be best if you can go back to the beginning and explain what you are trying to do. Perhaps you could post your .box file here, or maybe some photos of your models. Templot can do all this, but it is outside the range of most users. :)

regards,

Martin.

posted: 10 Dec 2017 14:17

from:

Z Gauge Tim
 
 

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Hi Martin and Andrew,  
you are probably right - I plan to run a large loco. I have increased the length to 120 mm and angle to 3, but I guess it's not enough. 

I am building a small Z gauge layout, the space is limited, so I have decided to use smaller turnouts, but it looks like they are not going to work. 

I will build a test turnout to test everything.
3445_100912_340000000.jpg3445_100912_340000000.jpg

3445_100913_340000000.jpg3445_100913_340000000.jpg3445_100915_020000000.jpg3445_100915_020000000.jpg3445_100916_590000000.jpg3445_100916_590000000.jpg

posted: 21 Sep 2019 16:56

from:

Z Gauge Tim
 
 

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Hi Martin, after two years I finally have 90% of necessary tooling and resources to start making my own handlaid turnouts with servo drivers. This is why I get back to Templot. One question though - I have extended the length of turnout, but there are no timbers. How to add them? 
Thanks a lot

3445_211213_010000000.png3445_211213_010000000.png
Last edited on 21 Sep 2019 17:13 by Z Gauge Tim
posted: 21 Sep 2019 17:43

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Hi Tim,

Good to hear from you again. :)

Please could you attach your .box file here? it's not possible to say for sure why those timbers are missing without seeing the file.

Most likely you have at some stage omitted them in the shoved timber settings.

If you go to real > shove timbers... menu item, any omitted timbers will show as isolated numbers, as T8 in this example:

2_211236_550000000.png2_211236_550000000.png

If you select it by clicking on the number, you can then click the restore timber button to restore it.

if you are asking about the missing exit timbering, most likely you have set it to rails only, like this:

2_211251_200000000.png2_211251_200000000.png

Change it to sleepered or timbered as you require.

cheers,

Martin.

posted: 21 Sep 2019 17:51

from:

Z Gauge Tim
 
 

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Hi Martin, thanks. I was actually talking about rights side of picture. Showing timbers doesn't help - they are missing. 
Thanks 
Attachment: attach_2904_3144_midland_central_2019_09_21_1950_00.box     129

posted: 21 Sep 2019 18:20

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Hi Tim,

Thanks for the .box file.

The reason for the missing sleepering is that you have set an invalid custom setting for the rail lengths and sleeper spacings:

2_211313_250000000.png2_211313_250000000.png

That is currently set to a rail length of 866.14 inches (obviously wrong), with all the sleeper spacings set to zero. :(

I suggest to select one of the upper settings in that list as a starting point.

There is more about setting custom rail lengths and sleeper spacings here:

  http://templot.com/martweb/pdf_files/gwr_track_panels.pdf

That tutorial was written by Stuart Hince several years ago, but it is still valid for Templot2. It is specifically for GWR 44ft-6in track panels, so you need to change the dimensions accordingly.

I should perhaps explain that in UK practice, the sleepers are not evenly spaced. They are progressively closed up towards the rail joints -- which is why Templot requires each spacing to be entered separately.

cheers,

Martin.



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