Templot Club Archive 2007-2020
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posted: 3 Oct 2018 14:24 from: Martin Wynne
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I was stopped in my tracks this week by this: http://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=6066 and I've been thinking about the future of Templot. There is clearly no point in the internet check on start-up, it has failed. It will be removed in the next program update. In the meantime it can be defeated on the current version of Templot2 as follows: 1. on the first splash screen click the small TM trade mark symbol before you click anything else. 2. the colour dialog will appear. Set red=10, green=20, blue=30, click OK. 3. click GO in the usual way. 2_030905_020000000.png  Martin. |
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posted: 3 Oct 2018 16:18 from: Paul Boyd
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Hi Martin I have mixed feelings about this post, but mostly sadness. On the one hand, the ability to defeat the internet check was one reason, probably the main reason, for my interest in the open versions of Templot in the event of the proverbial bus. On the other hand, it's incredibly sad that someone demonstrating Templot isn't at the very least aware, apparently, of the incredible potential of Templot to its fullest. As he's gone through the internet check he must be using the latest version. Yes, people will still do things their own way, but the features must at least be shown by any demonstrator. The failure isn't of your making at all. You've built in a mechanism to ensure that everyone is using the newest version, you've posted articles here about the new functions, they've been discussed, what more can you do? You know my feelings about the internet check, but hopefully you also know that I do understand and quite happily accept your reasons. You'll be back trying to support many different versions again. Or maybe not... I feel sad that you feel you've failed in some way - really, you haven't in the slightest. Best regards, Paul |
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posted: 3 Oct 2018 17:43 from: madscientist click the date to link to this post click member name to view archived images |
I keep rereading the Scalefourum posting to see what stopped martin in his tracks and failing to find what he saw. all I see is a demonstrator who didnt know all the ins and ends of templot ( do any of us ) How long was the " TM" defeat there martin , you clever doggy |
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posted: 3 Oct 2018 17:55 from: PRChappell
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Martin I also am saddened by the action you are taking. All that has happened, if I am understanding what has been written, is a demonstrator has been demonstrating Templot2 at Scalefourum, has used the current version, the internet check has been used, but the demonstrator has not been aware of some of the new features that you have added. None of this implies you have failed. You introduced the internet check for the good reason of keeping all active users on the current version. Remember your frustration when this was not the case? A well-meaning demonstrator has been promoting Templot and showing some of the ways that it can achieve certain objectives. That is good. However, like most software there are more that one way of achieving the objective. I would encourage you to reconsider and not remove the internet check. If you are determined to go ahead could I ask that the check is still attempted and the user advised what version of Templot2 they are using and what the current version number is? Please don't get down-hearted - have another glass of wine or whatever tipple you fancy and the world will not seem so bad. Kind regards Peter |
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posted: 3 Oct 2018 18:57 from: Phil O
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Martin, I have too agree with the others, I'm pretty sure that I don't always use all of the shorter ways of doing things, probably because I am ignorant of their existence, but as long as I can achieve what I set out do, I'm happy and if I get stuck I holler. I have seen various Templot demonstrations and learnt a trick or two and I have also taught the demonstrator a trick or two. So I wouldn't be so hard on yourself, currently we are all using the same version, with the possible exception of one or two who might still be using version 0. At least you know the vast majority are sing off the same hymn sheet, even if we ain't singing the same verse. Thanks as ever. Phil |
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| Last edited on 3 Oct 2018 18:59 by Phil O |
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posted: 3 Oct 2018 19:52 from: Martin Wynne
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Phil O wrote: I have too agree with the others, I'm pretty sure that I don't always use all of the shorter ways of doing things, probably because I am ignorant of their existence, but as long as I can achieve what I set out do, I'm happy and if I get stuck I holler.Hi Phil, I think you are missing the point. It makes no difference to me whether someone uses Templot or not. If they do use it, it makes no difference to me whether they use all of it or just bits of it. It's a workshop tool to be used any way you like, the right way, the silly way, the wrong way. What upsets me is for someone who wants to know about Templot not to be given the proper information about it. It's just not FAIR to them. The same thing happened again yesterday on another forum, when someone asking about creating irregular diamonds was given a complex round about way of doing it instead of the one click needed. And it's my fault because I'm the only one who can inform, publish, broadcast, the information. It's been clear for a long time that I'm just no good at doing that. Martin. |
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posted: 3 Oct 2018 21:47 from: Phil O
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Martin, I think your being too hard on yourself, creating Templot is your hobby and we thank you for it and I would like to think all other users do too. You have created a very complex piece of software, which you have continued to refine, but as you have improved it and added further functions, some of us have missed a few tricks along the way. If providing the online user instructions are proving somewhat difficult, could you not go on the road and do some demonstrations around the country at a some of the larger exhibitions and possibly a few seminars at Missenden Abbey where we can get it straight from the horses mouth. If these could be filmed, edited and places on Youtube it might overcome most if not all of the problems. There are lot of modelling how too's on Youtube, there would be no need to write it up, no need to find suitable software for showing stuff on screen that is compatible with everybody's hardware. Phil. |
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posted: 3 Oct 2018 22:54 from: Tony W
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When I saw that thread on the Scalefour forum I almost responded to it. I thought the attitude rather belligerent. As someone who has demonstrated Templot in the past, I believe there is an onus on the demonstrator to at least be aware of the facilities Templot offers even if one doesn't necessarily use them oneself. I agree with Martin that to do otherwise denies the enquirer the opportunity to gain the most benefit from the experience. I will admit that Templot is not an easy thing to demonstrate in depth and I don't know all the wrinkles despite making considerable use of it. One of the things I do is to read through the change notes to keep up to date. Obviously not everybody does, but you can't do any more than provide them. I do still have an older version of Templot that I use for particular reasons, but I also use the current version. Why this failure should prompt the defeat override response I must admit I find puzzling. I for one will continue to log in as normal and suggest others do the same to ensure they have the most up to date version until such time as we need to do otherwise. Martin's time is far too precious to waste on answering unnecessary questions for obsolete versions of Templot. Regards Tony W. |
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posted: 3 Oct 2018 23:00 from: Trevor Walling
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Hello Martin, I would suggest the internet check on start up of Templot was the best way to ensure you are not driven over the edge trying to keep up with users questions and problems. I believe removing it will render assistance for users virtually impossible due to the inevitable spread of version changes and people not keeping it up to date. I think you are doing yourself a disservice taking this route and likely making problems for the future that will end in tears. I also think you tend to forget us mere mortals struggle keeping up with all the changes and improvements you provide. Many people use Templot for a short while to achieve their latest project then put it aside and forget a lot of what they have learnt. Overall though we are in awe of the capabilities and many never get round to using them all because they build what they require without having to do so. I hope I am wrong with my forecast of doom and you continue to derive pleasure from your efforts in the future. Regards.  |
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posted: 3 Oct 2018 23:45 from: Martin Wynne
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Phil O wrote: could you not go on the road and do some demonstrations around the country at a some of the larger exhibitions and possibly a few seminars at Missenden Abbey where we can get it straight from the horse's mouthHi Phil, Absolutely not. I did quite a lot of that 15-20 years ago. It was (mostly) pleasant meeting and chatting to Templot users, explaining a few things, and listening to their ideas and suggestions. But the travelling, the driving, the being in the right place at the right time wearing a clean shirt, was a strain then and is utterly beyond me now. On the left under my name it says "West Of The Severn" and that is where I intend to stay. This is my idea of going round the country now: lugg_valley_from_black_hill_1280x900.jpg  llandinshop_wood_1280_720.jpg  Martin. |
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posted: 4 Oct 2018 00:11 from: Martin Wynne
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Tony W wrote: Why this failure should prompt the defeat override response I must admit I find puzzling.Hi Tony, The internet check and forced program update has been a constant bone of contention. See for example: topic 3324 and many earlier topics and emails. The sole justification for this annoyance was that it ensures everyone is up to date with program changes, making it much easier for me to support Templot and answer questions. But if it doesn't actually work, there is no point at all in continuing with it. In future Templot will still check for updates if an internet connection is available, and put up an update message about it, but it will be optional whether to take any notice. I'm aware that this will mean that some users will never update, but that is up to them. Just don't come on here expecting any help with the program. Anyone wanting a response from me will need to state which program version they are using -- I may add a box for that information on the posting editor. There is another angle to this. The open-source version of Templot still has significant chunks of Templot2 missing. There has been so little interest in the open-source version that I'm no longer minded to spend the significant time needed filling in the gaps. The open-source version doesn't include any update check and I don't want to drive users to a deficient version simply to avoid the internet check in Templot2. Martin. |
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posted: 4 Oct 2018 09:20 from: Tony W
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Hi Martin. I now follow your reasoning behind the decision. Regrettable but understandable. Prompting users to update to the latest version of Templot 2 and clearly stating that no support will be provided unless you do would appear to be the only way left to go under the circumstances. Strictly adhered to! There is a minor benefit of this to me personally as I shall in future be able to use Templot 2 on my non internet connected XP desktop with its large screen monitor and hopefully be able to print out using my large sheets of double A3 paper instead of having to use my laptop screen and A4 pages under Linux. That is solely down to the generic and somewhat basic printer driver available. Regards Tony. |
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posted: 4 Oct 2018 14:42 from: Trevor Walling
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Hello MartinThis is my idea of going round the country now: Its a beautiful part of the country to go round too  Regards. |
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posted: 4 Oct 2018 23:06 from: Andrew Duncan
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Hello Martin As a number of others have said I too was saddened at your take on this post. You seem to feel an awful responsibility for the dissemination of information on Templot which I honestly feel is too much. As adult users of your program, freely given to us by you, I feel we are all responsible to find our own way through. Indeed the support that you and others gave me when I was starting out in Templot was huge. It gave not only a means to an end, but a bunch of fellow modellers who expressed an interest in what I was doing and this encouraged me write up my progress as I went along. Something that I’d not done before. You provide a helpful safe environment where, as a novice in track design and building, I felt ok to ask rather obvious questions and never did I get the impression that I was being talked down to or made to feel silly. For me this site has enabled me to talk to / correspond with a number of modellers who I’d otherwiwe never have met and that’s been a really quite special . This is about track building, but its also about relationships and I think they are far more important than a set of instructions. Kind regards Andrew PS do keep the internet update feature, it keeps us all up to date and that for most has to be a good thing |
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| Last edited on 4 Oct 2018 23:15 by Andrew Duncan |
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posted: 4 Oct 2018 23:27 from: Andrew Barrowman
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Hi Martin, I think you are right to make it clear to users that you will not support old versions. (The current buzzword seems to be "abrogated".) Andy |
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posted: 5 Oct 2018 09:30 from: Andrew Duncan
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Martin I forgot to say what wonderful photos you've composed. The lower one is positively a Constable ! Andrew |
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posted: 5 Oct 2018 14:03 from: Martin Wynne
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Andrew Duncan wrote: MartinThanks Andrew. Every time I look at that one I wish I'd opened the gate for the photo. Here are a couple more you might like. larford_evening_1200x800.jpg  rock_stile_1280x720.jpg  Thanks everyone for the kind words in this topic. Martin. |
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posted: 5 Oct 2018 19:13 from: Phil O
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A couple more great photos of the British countryside. | ||
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posted: 6 Oct 2018 00:38 from: Andrew Duncan
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Hello Martin Yes I know what you mean about the gate, it does plant it very much in the latter half of the 20th century but nothing that photoshop couldn’t take care of in the right hands. I suspect that such a suggestion is probably missing the point, if the point is to compose a photograph of perfect balance harmony and beauty? But having got back home with that image there’s a part of me that would reach for an editing program and then there’s the perfectionist that couldn’t wait to get back out there to have another shot at it. Andrew |
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posted: 6 Oct 2018 01:20 from: Martin Wynne
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Andrew Duncan wrote: Yes I know what you mean about the gate, it does plant it very much in the latter half of the 20th century but nothing that photoshop couldn’t take care of in the right hands.Hi Andrew, I wasn't thinking so much about it being a metal gate, rather that by being closed it forms a barrier to the eye leading into the scene. Photoshopping it into the open position is rather beyond my photoshop abilities I'm afraid. I try to compose scenes which look "right" to my eye, but "a perfect balance of harmony and beauty" is well above my pay-grade! It's easy to go back, but replicating the same sky and lighting a second time is of course impossible. With the autumn colours soon here I will go back and have another go -- this time with the gate open. Looking west at SO 25414 77447 if anyone else wants to have a go. cheers, Martin. |
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posted: 18 Nov 2018 10:20 from: dave turner
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Martin (v2.19b) As a long term user of Templot, and having bought the .98 version, I slightly resented the necessity to have an internet connection. At the time I was often in areas that had an unreliable internet connection. However I did understand your reasoning. May I suggest that you continue with the automatic update but ignore any requests/questions on the forum that do not clearly state that they are using the latest version. If someone wants to circumvent your update system that is down to them, truthfully I like the option to do so; but you should not be considerate of those who do not maintain their own systems. Long may you continue to work on this unique program. Best Regards Dave |
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