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 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
1st message | this message only posted: 18 Aug 2019 23:50
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from:
Rob Manchester
Manchester



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Hi Martin,

Sorry to be a nuisance as usual :? but can I save items such as output drawing options and element options in my prefs.sk1 file ? I though it was possible to do that but starting Templot using my saved prefs file doesn't pick up changes I made in the previous session. Opening the .sk1 file show a section like this :-

--------  print output:  --------
08-00s=| Arial
08-01i=6
08-02i=0
08-03b=0
08-04b=0
08-05b=0
08-06b=0
08-10f=288
08-11i=9492696
08-12i=11567184
08-15i=0
08-17b=1
08-18b=0
.
.
.
etc etc

Does that not refer to changes I have made on the output menu ? I am looking to have two sets of prefs depending on if the printed output is used just for looking at or for building track on.

Hope that makes sense. Must get to bed.. :)

Rob


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message ref: 27602

 
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2nd message | this message only posted: 19 Aug 2019 00:47
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
Hi Rob,

Currently the following settings on the output menu are included in the saved prefs:
   
    font for small corner page numbers

    sketchboard track-background width
    sketchboard track-background colour
   
    diagram mode track colour

    print in colour/grey shades/black+white

    grid lines solid/dotted

    line thickness settings
   
    rail infill style
    timber infill style
    platform infill style

    full timber numbering on plain track on/off

What else did you want?

Unfortunately you just missed the boat. While you were posting I was running the installer script for version 223c.

If you had posted an hour earlier I may have delayed that to include what you wanted in the prefs. :(

I will try to get another update done soon with your requirements.

I have been adding stuff to the prefs as I need it myself or folks ask for it. There are so many options and settings in Templot that to include them all from scratch would be a major task.

cheers,

Martin.

__________
message ref: 27603

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
3rd message | this message only posted: 19 Aug 2019 22:53
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from:
Rob Manchester
Manchester



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Hi Martin,
Thanks for your kind offer to add some more custom settings to the output menu. Maybe I didn't explain properly why I want to do this. The idea is :-

1) Design a trackplan.
2) When it looks right change to a 'custom' .sk1 file that enables a track plan to be printed that only has timbers/sleepering and rails on it and use that to make a mock-up of the layout ( either full size or more likely at a reduced scale.
3) Make any changes to the track plan and maybe print it again.
4) When happy with it then switch to 'normal' full detail printing and print track plan out for construction.

Some of the printed elements are controlled by the generator settings ( track centre lines, timber extension marks,etc) so not sure if changing them and including the generator settings in the .sk1 file would be a good idea or not. Can you have a .sk1 file that includes them for use in step 2 above and a normal .sk1 file that remembers you need them back on for normal work :?... with the way it appears to be set up in Templot you would need to have the include generator settings on all the time. Or am I missing something ?

Rob


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message ref: 27613

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
4th message | this message only posted: 19 Aug 2019 23:29
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
Hi Rob,

You can include the generator settings or not as you wish when saving an SK1 preferences file. If they are in the file they will be honoured when the file is loaded. Note, however, that changing the generator settings has no effect until the background templates are rebuilt, or a fresh BOX file loaded. Simply loading a different SK1 file won't by itself change the printed output.

It was never my original intention to include the generator settings in the saved preferences. I was persuaded to allow it by someone, but I wish I hadn't and my general advice is not to include them. The potential for confusion with some templates rebuilt but not others and conflicts with other settings is just too great.

What you actually want in the SK1 file is the settings at output > output drawing options > element options... .

I will put them there now, and try to post post a program update for you tomorrow.

Are there any others which you would like to see in that dialog? (but no promises that it will be feasible).

cheers,

Martin.

__________
message ref: 27614

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
5th message | this message only posted: 19 Aug 2019 23:32
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from:
Rob Manchester
Manchester



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Hi Martin,
Thanks for the reply. Don't rush to provide another update just yet. Let me take a look and come back to you first. The potential for a real mess-up using the generator settings had crossed my mind :(

Rob


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message ref: 27615

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
6th message | this message only posted: 20 Aug 2019 21:57
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from:
Rob Manchester
Manchester



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Hi Martin,

Just been having a trial run of the settings in the Output menu to get the printed results I want. If these ( or some of them at least ? ) could be included in the .sk1 file it would be a great help :-


Grid lines OFF
Radial end marks OFF
Switch labels OFF
V-Crossing labels OFF
Timber numbering OFF on all track
Track Centre lines OFF
Show corner coordinates OFF
Timber infill COLOUR

Other items I want to omit from the prints can only be changed ( AFAICS ) in the Generator which I will just do each time I require a 'clean' print.

The prints look lovely and clean. No rush to do a special update just for me if you are busy on other jobs :)

Many thanks
Rob




__________
message ref: 27616

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
7th message | this message only posted: 21 Aug 2019 21:47
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
Thanks Rob.

Attached below is a scruff release of Templot version 2.23.z

Save the  templot_2.exe  file in your  C:\TEMPLOT_DEV\  folder to replace the one already there.

Windows will no doubt take a dim view of it and make you click through the usual security stuff.

It's the same as the current 2.23.c apart from some changes to the printed output options, and the saving of them in saved preferences.

Saved preferences for the output are now these:

All these options, of which the 6 marked red are new:



plus:
              timber infill colour
              control template rail infill colour
              background template rail infill colour
              
              grid lines colour
              
              background shapes colour
              platform edge colour
              platform infill colour

              corner info on/off
              corner info font

              track background width in image files and on sketchboard
             
              cess colour / track background colour
             
              diagram-mode colour on sketchboard

              printing in colour / grey shades / black & white

              grid on/off
              grid lines solid/dotted
             
              line thickness settings

              rail infill style
              timber infill style
              platform infill style

              timber numbering on/off              
              full numbering on plain track on/off

              print page idents (watermarks) on/off
              PDF page idents (watermarks) on/off

              printer calibration warning on/off

The tricky one was the timber-outline extension marks. If the option is unticked, the output function does a rebuild of the background templates before printing to exclude them, and then again afterwards to restore them. (The extension marks are extremely helpful on construction templates, but don't look good on a descriptive drawing.)

Bear in mind that the rebuilds will also include any changes you have made on the generator.

I've done some limited testing of all this, but testing every option is exhausting. Over to you. :)

Let me know if anything doesn't seem right. Also let me know if there is anything else you need. All this will be in version 223d, but not for a while. This scruff release is just to get you going with the updated saved preferences.

edit: attachment deleted, replaced by 2.23.x at:

 http://85a.co.uk/forum/view_topic.php?id=3499&forum_id=3&jump_to=27699#p27699

cheers,

Martin.

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message ref: 27619

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
8th message | this message only posted: 22 Aug 2019 19:12
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from:
Rob Manchester
Manchester



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Hi Martin,

Wow, thanks very much for that. Kind of you to do it so quickly :)

It is great that you change all the options within the output menu from a single window rather than multiple drop-downs from the main menu.

Only one question...you mention the option for printer calibration warning. Normally ( before this update ) every time I use Templot and want to print I get asked which printer I wish to use/what kind of printer is it/do I want to load a calibration file etc. Within each session of Templot it wouldn't ask again which printer I wanted and prompt for a calibration file. With this new update it still seems to do the same unless I am missing something :?

Rob


__________
message ref: 27630

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
9th message | this message only posted: 22 Aug 2019 19:34
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
Rob Manchester wrote: It is great that you change all the options within the output menu from a single window rather than multiple drop-downs from the main menu.Hi Rob,

I know. It's been my intention for years to replace the complex menu structure with proper dialogs. The menus are a legacy from the days of Windows95 when the menu system used far less of the available system resources than dialogs and controls.

But making such a change means days and days of work, with no actual difference in the available functionality. I've always taken the view that spending time on something that can't yet be done is better than spending time updating something which can actually be done now, even if not as conveniently as it could be. Perhaps it's time I set myself a target of doing one new dialog for each program update?  

Only one question...you mention the option for printer calibration warning. Normally ( before this update ) every time I use Templot and want to print I get asked which printer I wish to use/what kind of printer is it/do I want to load a calibration file etc. Within each session of Templot it wouldn't ask again which printer I wanted and prompt for a calibration file. With this new update it still seems to do the same unless I am missing somethingI haven't changed anything there -- it's not clear whether you are saying you want something changed, or it has changed? :?

cheers,

Martin.

__________
message ref: 27631

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
10th message | this message only posted: 22 Aug 2019 21:08
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from:
Rob Manchester
Manchester



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Hi Martin,

Just been thinking about this while I munched down my steak and lambs liver meal :D You listed 'printer calibration warning on/off' in your post of last night which I had taken to mean ( wrongly I suspect ) that you had removed the need to choose the calibration file for the chosen printer on each Templot session therefore omitting the printed warning message.

I see now that it is just the warning message that can be supressed on subsequent sessions - sensible given my original remit for pretty printouts.

So the question now is can you save the selected printer and calibration file into the .sk1 file to remove the need to step through each of these on every Templot session ? If it is a lot of work or not possible please ignore the request.

The proper dialogue for the Output Elements is great but I personally would probably not benefit from this kind of upgrade in other areas. I don't print in colour and don't change the colours used on any screen items - others may have a different view but if somebody did want white track on a purple background for some odd reason they wouldn't presumably have the need to change their settings frequently ( assuming the settings were included in the .sk1 files. )

Rob


__________
message ref: 27632

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
11th message | this message only posted: 22 Aug 2019 21:52
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
Rob Manchester wrote: So the question now is can you save the selected printer and calibration file into the .sk1 file to remove the need to step through each of these on every Templot session ? If it is a lot of work or not possible please ignore the request.Hi Rob,

It's including this option in the saved preferences, nothing more:



If you change it, it gets saved. You wanted the cleanest possible output saved with only rails and timbers. Likewise the page ident option (watermark).

Saving the printer in the saved preferences is possible, but could cause problems. What happens at startup if that printer isn't available? Use a different one? Ask for it to be switched on? Show the printer setup dialog immediately?

In the early days of Templot / Windows, selecting the printer was a major pain. Templot wouldn't even start if there was no default printer on the system. There had to be 2 different printer setups, one for Windows 95/98/ME and another for Windows NT/2000. Still there in the code. Messages from Windows saying "Printer not found" were common, despite the damn thing being right there under your nose showing a green light exactly the same as last time. It was so frustrating because when it did work it was so much easier than the printer driver I wrote for earlier computers. Templot needs to know more about the available printers than most software, so that it can select the correct calibration data.

Everything improved with the adoption of USB connections instead of the old parallel printer cables and multi-way switches.

But I'm scarred for life from printer code hassles, and I'm a bit wary of going near it. On startup Templot asks Windows which printers are available -- telling Windows which printer to use could plunge us back into the old days. That's supposed to be a matter for the user to decide, not be decided by software. Even getting the printer name exactly right is fraught with difficulty, because Windows displays two different names for a printer depending on where you look. :(

I will think about it.

cheers,

Martin.

__________
message ref: 27634

 
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12th message | this message only posted: 22 Aug 2019 22:40
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from:
Rob Manchester
Manchester



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Hi Martin,

Thanks for the in-depth explanation - I can imagine the issue it could cause. Last thing we want is you to lose hair or sleep over it :)

Thanks again for you excellent work on this.

Rob


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message ref: 27635

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
13th message | this message only posted: 23 Aug 2019 11:49
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
Hi Rob,

I've given this some thought.

I'm going to include all the printer information in the saved preferences. If you choose a printer in the setup dialog which matches one of the saved ones, Templot will use the saved data for it instead of asking the usual questions about it.

That will be in the next program update.

However there is no way to avoid showing the standard Windows Print Setup dialog at least once:



Trying to bypass that is just asking for trouble. Templot has no control over what appears there, or what Windows does with the data. Templot can only ask Windows for the information afterwards.

In the past I have tried to pre-set the paper size or orientation before showing the dialog. It should be possible according to the MS docs, but it has never worked for me. :?

cheers,

Martin.

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message ref: 27638

 
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14th message | this message only posted: 23 Aug 2019 16:52
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from:
Rob Manchester
Manchester



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Thanks Martin, look forward to that.

Rob


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