Templot Club Archive 2007-2020
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posted: 12 May 2020 12:02 from: Mike Kynaston
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Morning guys, Im helping a friend of mine with a 2mm Finescale trackplan design, and we have hit a slight snag that neither of us can understand how to get around. Single slip - Flickr Image The above photo link, shows a single slip to the left of the DMU. How would be the best way to recreate it, given that the said single slip appears to have movable blades on the area that is normally a diamond, and that it is on a awkward curve? Can anyone point us in the right direction please? Mike |
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| Last edited on 12 May 2020 12:02 by Mike Kynaston |
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posted: 12 May 2020 12:20 from: Martin Wynne
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Mike Kynaston wrote:The above photo link, shows a single slip to the left of the DMU. How would be the best way to recreate it, given that the said single slip appears to have movable blades on the area that is normally a diamond, and that it is on a awkward curve? Can anyone point us in the right direction please?Hi Mike, It's a switch-diamond single-slip. Quite common in flat-bottom, not so much in bullhead. Here's a close-up of the K-crossings (this is a double-slip): fb_movablek_dslip.jpg  thanks to Mick Nicholson They are used when the crossing angle is flatter than 1:8. As one blade closes the other opens. Are you asking how to build it, or how to do it in Templot? Just start with a turnout flatter than 1:8 on the required curve, say a C-10, and then tools > make slip: 2_120717_440000000.png  Being on a curve makes no difference. More about slips in Templot at: http://templot.com/companion/slips.php More information about switch-diamonds (movable K-crossings) in Templot: 2_120732_280000000.png  cheers, Martin. |
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posted: 12 May 2020 12:37 from: Jim Guthrie
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Mike, It would probably be easier to consider the formation as two turnouts back to back and overlapping. That might be an easier way to deal with the curves through the fornation. The diamond crossing is a switched diamond - usually used when the angle of the "K" crossing starts getting too large which can cause flanges to take the wrong road. It looks as though the angle of the "K" crossing in the formation looks OK for a fixed diamond, but I wonder if the comparative simplicity of the switched diamond around the "K" crossing might not have been an advantage in this formation. Jim. |
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posted: 12 May 2020 14:06 from: Mike Kynaston
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Martin - Many thanks, the K crossing bit was the section we did not know about, and hand not realised that Templot would handle everything itself in that respect. Thanks. I'll have a got with it and see where we get to! I will see about posting the result on the forum in a dedicated thread on the appropriate board. Jim - Thanks for the input, I will try Martin's way but if I am struggling, I will take your comments on board about the two turnouts back to back. Mike |
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posted: 12 May 2020 21:24 from: Mike Kynaston
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Can I ask for a little help here? I've tried Martin's approach, but using separate points I cannot get a smooth run through the curve. Adding diamond crossovers by using P > D key presses from overlapping straight track works, but I cannot then convert those to single slips. Am I failing to do something? or just doing it wrong? I've attached the .box file so you can see what I've done. Excuse the gaps in the station trackwork, looking at images, Im not sure I've got the crossovers in the right place yet - the core station trackwork and lengths of line have been done by overlaying ontop of the NLS map of York - thanks for that feature Martin! Mike |
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| Attachment: attach_3040_3665_York.box 78 | |||
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posted: 12 May 2020 22:14 from: Martin Wynne
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Hi Mike, That's an irregular diamond-crossing. You can add slip roads to an irregular diamond, but it has to be done manually rather than using the automatic make tools. However, there is no way you can add inside slip roads to that one, because the angle is only around 1:4. You would need an outside slip for that, which doesn't match the photo, and certainly wouldn't need a switch-diamond. I will have a play and see if I can find something closer to the photo. cheers, Martin. |
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posted: 12 May 2020 22:41 from: Mike Kynaston
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Martin Wynne wrote: Hi Mike,Thanks Martin, I have obviously got the angle wrong - I mapped this using the attached Shape file, which has the NLS maps screenshot on it. Of course that was early 1900s, and the image is 80 odd years later, but I would not have thought the angle of the pointwork across the main lines would have changed. Apologies for hijacking your 'slips' thread - please feel free to move this to a separate topic if you feel that would be more beneficial. Also thanks for any help/pointers you can give me. Mike |
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| Attachment: attach_3041_3665_York.bgs3 77 | |||
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posted: 12 May 2020 23:25 from: Martin Wynne
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Hi Mike, Thanks for the map. I found it myself but I was struggling to work out which bit you are modelling. I've managed to get the slip to 1:7. Normally that would have fixed K-crossings, but in view of the curving it obviously needs to be a switch diamond: 2_121818_300000000.png  That's just a sketch. It needs a lot more work because you don't seem to have a full 6ft way in places. Also I shall have to rotate it 90 degrees to work on it, I can't cope with vertical on the screen.  I will see if I can tidy it up a bit more. The photo was quite confusing until I realised that the DMU isn't actually in the platform.  cheers, Martin. |
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posted: 13 May 2020 21:50 from: Mike Kynaston
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Hi Martin, Thanks for taking the time to look at that for us, it is gratefully appreciated. Interesting that you say about the full 6ft way in places. I thought I had got that, as I used the 'Make Double Track' MS and TS options to create the four lines, and then when adding in points etc, made sure that everything overlapped to ensure the spacing remained constant. This 'gap' between the tracks (sorry I can never remember the official name for it) is the one area I have not quite got right yet. Talking with my friend who is looking to build this, we decided against widening the formation through the station by 18 inches, on the premise that the curve was such a wide radius in 2FS that there should not be any problems with coaches or wagons 'clipping' Do you know, until I read your response and went back and looked again, I had not realised it was heading from Scarborough onto the Up Main either! I presume it must have run through, crossing to the Down Main, then using the scissor crossover to arrive in Platform 9(S). I don't know if this helps any more? http://www.flickr.com/photos/tibshelf/9527188627/ Mike |
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posted: 15 May 2020 22:29 from: Mike Kynaston
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Hi Martin,Just wondered if you'd been able to get any further? If you haven't had time, please don't worry, but if your willing to share the .box file that would be great and I can hopefully push on a little further this weekend. Cheers Mike |
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posted: 16 May 2020 16:09 from: Martin Wynne
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Mike Kynaston wrote: Hi Martin,Just wondered if you'd been able to get any further? If you haven't had time, please don't worry, but if your willing to share the .box file that would be great and I can hopefully push on a little further this weekend.Hi Mike, Sorry about the delay in replying. I haven't got a usable .box file -- I just tried a few overlaid templates to see what might fit. I will try to get a bit of usable .box file done and upload it later. Thanks for the second pic -- much clearer for the trackwork. What confused me about the map and 6ft ways, until the light bulb came on, is that the map shows the platform canopy, not the platform edge. Hence it overlaps one of the rails. That's expected on modern maps, where everything is done from aerial photography. It's surprising in 1907, but how else do you survey a station roof? NLS do have some later 25" single sheets, but they are blanked out for the critical area. cheers, Martin. |
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posted: 16 May 2020 19:37 from: Mike Kynaston
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Hi Martin, Please don't apologise. I appreciate the help you have given already - there was no expectation for you to pick up and run with this! Gratefully appreciate your help and advice. Mike |
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posted: 17 May 2020 13:03 from: Martin Wynne
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Hi Mike, Here's a BOX file with my suggested design. I managed to get the slip to 1:9, which makes more sense for the switch-diamond: 2_170745_070000001.png  It was a bit of a juggle to keep the 6ft way for the slip road, get the crossings in the same relative positions as the photos, and align it all to the old map. BOX and BGS3 files attached. Over to you to do the timber shoving. For the map, I captured it a higher zoom level than yours (level 19*, which is usually gives the best results), and I also used the function in Templot to reduce it to a low-contrast grey image while working over it. *that means the circumference of the Earth halved 19 times, per image tile. 2_170745_060000000.png  cheers, Martin. |
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| Attachment: attach_3064_3665_mike_york_curved_slip_9xing.box 74 | |||
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posted: 17 May 2020 13:13 from: Martin Wynne
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and the BGS3: |
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| Attachment: attach_3065_3665_mike_york.bgs3 84 | |||
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posted: 17 May 2020 13:34 from: Martin Wynne
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Hi Mike, Here's a slightly modified file. I moved the north-west turnout a bit further back, to get a better alignment against the west platform edge on the map. Martin. |
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| Attachment: attach_3066_3665_mike_york_curved_slip_9xing_1.box 75 | |||
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posted: 17 May 2020 14:29 from: Mike Kynaston
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Martin, I am very grateful for your help, as is my mate with whom I am laying this end of the station out for - he's doing Holgate Junction and the other end!! Thanks again. On the subject of timber shoving, is there a thread on here or another source that shows how timbers should be laid out? I know about keeping them over certain parts of the pointwork (such as the timber nose) but is it just about keeping it neat and supported, or is there a methodology behind it all? I would like to read up on the process, so we can get it right on the plan. Mike |
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posted: 17 May 2020 14:47 from: Martin Wynne
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Mike Kynaston wrote: On the subject of timber shoving, is there a thread on here or another source that shows how timbers should be laid out?Hi Mike, There is no "right" answer when timbering a complex pointwork design. No two designers will come up with exactly the same timbering layout. There are some basic principles, see: topic 1153 but you can always find a photograph showing something else. More topics on this subject: topic 1610 topic 2460 topic 720 Unfortunately the links to the old Templot Yahoo group no longer work, since Yahoo reverted to an email list only. cheers, Martin. |
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posted: 17 May 2020 16:06 from: Mike Kynaston
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Thanks Martin, Much appreciated, I'll have a read Cheers Mike |
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