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                 C&L New Chairs and new format for GWR 2 bolt & S1 3 bolt chairs
     
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1st message | this message only posted: 4 Jun 2020 07:03
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from:
Hayfield
United Kingdom

 

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C&L have launched their 2 & 3 bolt chairs in a new revised format, hopefully will be of benefit to trackbuilders

I have done a bit more detailed description added to an earlier thread
http://85a.co.uk/forum/view_topic.php?id=3484&forum_id=1&jump_to=29864#p29864


The format is for 16 pieces, from left to right

2x bridge chairs, 2x J chairs, 10x standard chairs and 2 H section  fishplates



The 3 bolt chairs has the same selection of chairs but there are two type of fishplates, 1x standard and 1x reinforced

The fishplates can also be bought as a separate item, not listed on the website yet but are available

with the 2 bolt chairs the bridge chair and J chair have never been available in a plastic moulding, likewise with the 3 bolt J chair and the reinforced fishplate

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2nd message | this message only posted: 12 Sep 2020 20:36
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from:
DerekStuart
United Kingdom

 

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Hello John

Can I ask what a 'J' chair is used for, please? It's not one I've seen before.

Thanks
Derek
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3rd message | this message only posted: 12 Sep 2020 20:58
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from:
Rob Manchester
Manchester, United Kingdom



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Hi Derek,

'J' is for joint.

Rob


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4th message | this message only posted: 12 Sep 2020 21:15
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
DerekStuart wrote: Can I ask what a 'J' chair is used for, please? It's not one I've seen before.
Hi Derek,

"S1J" chairs are joint chairs. They have a wider base than ordinary S1 chairs, for use adjacent to rail joints. The rail is supported on the wider base as close to the joint as possible. The jaws are the same size as ordinary S1 chairs, so that the fishplates still fit between them.

If you look closely in the NERA 1926 SRE book, you will see that S1J chairs are shown adjacent to the rail joints within some turnouts and other formations, and included in the parts lists.

S1J also used at the ends of 60ft track panels in some cases.

S1J chair drawing in the NERA book at page 5.

In the drawing of a rail joint on page 1 (left middle), joint chairs and 12" wide joint timbering is indicated by dotted lines. You can see that the extra width means the rail is supported as far as the first fish-bolt.

cheers,

Martin.

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5th message | this message only posted: 12 Sep 2020 22:21
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from:
DerekStuart
United Kingdom

 

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Thanks both.

I'm a bit annoyed with myself as I should have realised that.

Apologies if I appear to be lazy, I'm not. I just seem to be forgetting things more easily than I'd like.

Derek
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6th message | this message only posted: 13 Sep 2020 00:09
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from:
Rob Manchester
Manchester, United Kingdom



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DerekStuart wrote: Thanks both.

I'm a bit annoyed with myself as I should have realised that.

Apologies if I appear to be lazy, I'm not. I just seem to be forgetting things more easily than I'd like.

Derek
Derek,
Join the club. While I was out walking the other day I met a lady I used to work with. I couldn't remember her name at the time. I have been trying to remember it for the last 3 days but no joy as yet :(
Rob


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7th message | this message only posted: 13 Sep 2020 07:56
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from:
Hayfield
United Kingdom

 

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DerekStuart wrote: Thanks both.

I'm a bit annoyed with myself as I should have realised that.

Apologies if I appear to be lazy, I'm not. I just seem to be forgetting things more easily than I'd like.

Derek
Derek
Its something we all do and more regularly as we get older

I guess there is no hard and fast rule but is based on supporting the weakest point in track. 

On plain track the spacing between the first 3 and last 3 sleepers in a track panel is closer together and sometimes the first and last sleeper were 12 " wide, in some regions J chairs were fitted on the first and last  sleeper

With turnouts where joints occur and items need supporting timbers are closer together and or under the stress point (crossing nose), again where joints appear J chairs are used

Its all part of giving your track a more lifelike appearance

Back to the sprues. These new 2 & 3 bold 4 mm scale sprues (3 bolt 7 mm to follow soon) have two L1 (bridge chairs), two J chairs and 2 functioning pairs of fishplates (2 bolt both plain, 3 bold 1 x plain & 1 x reinforced. Phil is considering when funds are available to produce 00 scale check rail chairs and a universal turnout special chair sprue. These are in the thought stage at the moment

I keep banging on but with chaired track chopped up chairs usually look like chopped up chairs, rail joiners again look like rail joiners

The Exactoscale diagrams & plans contradict themselves. An A switch has 2 bridge chairs, a B switch has 6 and a C switch 10

Looking at common crossings a 1-5 crossing has 1 bridge chair , a 1-6 has 3. a 1-7 has 5, a 1-8 has 2, 

But to make these crossings and switches look even better they have block chairs and extended slide chairs as well as slab chairs on the crossing nose. To be fair a reasonable representation of some of the crossing block chairs can be made by splicing 3 standard chairs together. But given the length some modelers go to in detailing their stock I am surprised most ignore the Exactoscale special chairs

The special switch chair will produce 1 x LH and 1 x RH either A, B or C switches all for £2 and there will be spare half chair and center blocks parts

The special Common crossing pack again is £2 and has enough parts for 1 x 1-5, 1 x 1-6, 1 x 1-7, 1 x 1-8 and 1 x 1-10 crossing

Both these packs work functionally in 00, EM & P4 gauges, as do the diamond crossing and slip packs. there is no issues in using them cosmetically either in these sizes or adjusting for other sizes

Some are actually cost effective example a pack of check chairs  £8.50 = 85p per turnout saving using 20 chairs, like wise a common crossing will save 10 chairs for 40p the switch chair pack is less cost effective but will still come in at well under £1 per turnout, all 3 will lift your turnouts to another level

https://exactoscale.com/track-components/chair-positions/

For those working in P4 and EM gauges these turnout and crossing bases are extremely useful, not only do they speed up the build process but they make for a very robust turnout or crossing

4mm scale P4 Turnout bases (4TB)
     4TB A5L P4 Turnout Base – Plastic – A5 L/H 4TB A5R P4 Turnout Base – Plastic – A5 R/H4TB A6L P4 Turnout Base – Plastic – A6 L/H4TB A6R P4 Turnout Base – Plastic – A6 R/H4TB A7L P4 Turnout Base – Plastic – A7 L/H4TB A7R P4 Turnout Base – Plastic – A7 R/H4TB B7L P4 Turnout Base – Plastic – B7 L/H4TB B7R P4 Turnout Base – Plastic – B7 R/H4TB B8L P4 Turnout Base – Plastic – B8 L/H4TB B8R P4 Turnout Base – Plastic – B8 R/H4TB C10L P4 Turnout Base – Plastic – C10 L/H4TB C10R P4 Turnout Base – Plastic – C10 R/H4TB DIAM P4 Turnout Base – Plastic – Diamond 1:84TB DS8 P4 Turnout Base – Plastic – Double Slip 1:84TB SS8 P4 Turnout Base – Plastic – Single Slip 1:8
[size=For EM gauge you will have to shorten the diamond and slip crossings, the turnouts may come in a fraction too long but no real issues]
[size=
]

[size=I think they are only available from the Scalefour society]

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8th message | this message only posted: 13 Sep 2020 10:17
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from:
Hayfield
United Kingdom

 

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I hope this shows the chair positions a bit clearer, on the B switch the next timber on the right has S1 chairs on the main (straight road) and L1 (bridge) on the turnout road so tot to bottom
S1
L1


S1
L1


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9th message | this message only posted: 14 Sep 2020 00:07
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from:
DerekStuart
United Kingdom

 

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Thanks John. I remembered most of this detail, I just couldn't think what the J chair was for.

Here's an example of memory. How many times has Martin told people the difference between catch and trap points. (X is the device, but it's doing the job of Y). I still cannot remember which way around it is.. It's as hard as remembering who is who between 'ant and dec.'

PS I'm not as old as I look/ sound- I just damaged my head a little while back.


Hello Rob

I'm terrible with faces, but always have been. A few times I've thought I recognise someone and talked to them like we were long lost friends whilst trying to remember their name(s)... Only then to realise I'd never met them before.

As an aside, I'm really glad I got back into railway modelling- it's nice to converse with people about, and let's be honest, something and nothing as opposed to the urgent matters of daily life.

Keep well
Derek
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10th message | this message only posted: 15 Sep 2020 14:42
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
Martin Wynne wrote: DerekStuart wrote: Can I ask what a 'J' chair is used for, please? It's not one I've seen before.
Hi Derek,

"S1J" chairs are joint chairs. They have a wider base than ordinary S1 chairs, for use adjacent to rail joints. The rail is supported on the wider base as close to the joint as possible. The jaws are the same size as ordinary S1 chairs, so that the fishplates still fit between them.

If you look closely in the NERA 1926 SRE book, you will see that S1J chairs are shown adjacent to the rail joints within some turnouts and other formations, and included in the parts lists.

S1J also used at the ends of 60ft track panels in some cases.

S1J chair drawing in the NERA book at page 5.

In the drawing of a rail joint on page 1 (left middle), joint chairs and 12" wide joint timbering is indicated by dotted lines. You can see that the extra width means the rail is supported as far as the first fish-bolt.

Just spotted a recent diagram in a different topic:

 https://85a.co.uk/forum/view_topic.php?id=3733&forum_id=19#p30478



Only a month ago and I'd forgotten it already.

Martin.

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