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page trail:  Templot Club > Forums > Templot talk > Templot on a Mac - the end of the road?
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                 Templot on a Mac - the end of the road?
     
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1st message | this message only posted: 22 Jun 2020 19:08
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
This looks to be bad news for CrossOver, and anyone running Templot on a Mac computer:

 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-53142989

Hang on to the Mac you've got, or if you were thinking of getting a new one, do it soon.

Apple just don't like not to be in total control of what folks use their computers for, do they?

Meanwhile on Windows, I'm happily running some old Windows95 software on Wndows10, and Templot includes some old 16-bit controls from Windows 3.1 (on the file viewer), which still work fine on Windows10.

There's a message there, surely.

Meanwhile, does anyone want to try porting Templot3 to an Apple ARM processor? 

cheers,

Martin.

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2nd message | this message only posted: 23 Jun 2020 00:20
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from:
Nigel Brown
 

 

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Fairly typical Apple. I have a Macbook Pro, but only because I wanted something light and portable to take on holiday, with a good screen and keyboard, and a useful amount of power. I only use it to keep up with stuff on the web. I do have the odd app which is useful on holiday like Anquet Maps, but on a Mac it's a bit flaky and luckily I don't rely on it. I find the Apple "do it the Apple way" a real pain.

All my serious stuff is on a PC. It works, and I can set it up the way I want to. And I can build my own PC, which is a lot more fun than just handing over dosh for one and gives me far more control over what I get.

Nigel

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3rd message | this message only posted: 23 Jun 2020 15:45
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from:
DerekStuart
United Kingdom

 

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Without making any political comment one way or the other, I notice that Apple is now installing the C19 track and trace without any input to the user.

I don't even like Windows dictating to me when I need to update (which is usually for some nonsensical reason, rather than security.
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4th message | this message only posted: 23 Jun 2020 16:09
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from:
Nigel Brown
 

 

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DerekStuart wrote: Without making any political comment one way or the other, I notice that Apple is now installing the C19 track and trace without any input to the user.

I don't even like Windows dictating to me when I need to update (which is usually for some nonsensical reason, rather than security.Does this mean that if you've got an iphone you get it anyway, without knowing about it?

Nigel

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5th message | this message only posted: 23 Jun 2020 16:09
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from:
d827kelly
Coventry, United Kingdom

 

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Apple have controlled the software and hardware for as long as Apple products have existed.

The move to ARM chips was inevitable when the iOS devices started becoming so popular.

To Apple, it makes sense to control the CPU design, something impossible with Intel (only Intel and AMD are allowed to manufacturer x86 compatible chips, and then AMD only due to the original IBM PC design calling for two chip manufacturers for IBM to proceed with the deal, Intel is very hesitant to let others make x86 chips. The only others in the past being Cyrix and later NEC/VIA, which is effectively defunct now).

Intel's continued problems moving beyond 14nm production is another major reason for this move from Apple.

They can design and tailor the Axx chips for each device type as they please now, probably giving more cache and cores to iMacs/MacBooks etc and the MacBook Air if it continues will probably in effect use a faster version of the Axx chip in whatever iPad is current.

They could have gone for AMD x86 chips (they already use AMD for graphics chips), but it probably felt the right time to bring the last remaining piece they didn't control in house.
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6th message | this message only posted: 23 Jun 2020 16:13
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from:
Dave Summers
Urchfont, Devizes, United Kingdom

 

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Before posting nonsense please take care to THOROUGHLY check facts. You might want to start here. https://fullfact.org/health/covid-19-track-and-trace-app-has-not-been-automatically-downloaded-peoples-phones/
Dave

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7th message | this message only posted: 23 Jun 2020 16:32
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from:
Nigel Brown
 

 

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Dave Summers wrote: Before posting nonsense please take care to THOROUGHLY check facts. You might want to start here. https://fullfact.org/health/covid-19-track-and-trace-app-has-not-been-automatically-downloaded-peoples-phones/
Dave
To be fair, Derek's post didn't mention an app, and it does look like the API is being downloaded. Which might not mean anything yet, but there could be implications.

Nigel

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message ref: 30108

 
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8th message | this message only posted: 23 Jun 2020 16:34
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from:
Nigel Brown
 

 

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d827kelly wrote: Apple have controlled the software and hardware for as long as Apple products have existed.

The move to ARM chips was inevitable when the iOS devices started becoming so popular.

To Apple, it makes sense to control the CPU design, something impossible with Intel (only Intel and AMD are allowed to manufacturer x86 compatible chips, and then AMD only due to the original IBM PC design calling for two chip manufacturers for IBM to proceed with the deal, Intel is very hesitant to let others make x86 chips. The only others in the past being Cyrix and later NEC/VIA, which is effectively defunct now).

Intel's continued problems moving beyond 14nm production is another major reason for this move from Apple.

They can design and tailor the Axx chips for each device type as they please now, probably giving more cache and cores to iMacs/MacBooks etc and the MacBook Air if it continues will probably in effect use a faster version of the Axx chip in whatever iPad is current.

They could have gone for AMD x86 chips (they already use AMD for graphics chips), but it probably felt the right time to bring the last remaining piece they didn't control in house.Of course there is the possibility that Apple could encounter Intel's problems.

Nigel

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9th message | this message only posted: 23 Jun 2020 16:36
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from:
d827kelly
Coventry, United Kingdom

 

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APIs get added to both Android and iOS all the time, their usage however is not often forced upon users by either platform, though exceptions apply.

Google has added support for the track and trace functions to Android, but, the functionality requires the user to install an App that makes use of that API. The same as per Dave Summer's link probably applies with iOS, but I've never had one of those, preferring Android personally.
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10th message | this message only posted: 23 Jun 2020 16:43
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from:
d827kelly
Coventry, United Kingdom

 

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Nigel Brown wrote: d827kelly wrote:They could have gone for AMD x86 chips (they already use AMD for graphics chips), but it probably felt the right time to bring the last remaining piece they didn't control in house.Of course there is the possibility that Apple could encounter Intel's problems.

Nigel
They could perhaps, but the ARM cpus are designed in a very different way to the Intel x86 way. The Intel method currently uses a big die to pack everything on (conversely, AMD for Ryzen, use what is termed a chiplet approach, with effectively a modular design, which has made moving to 7nm and beyond much easier for them, and hence so much more competitive due to better yields etc on smaller die sizes, resulting in more chips per platter).

Apple already has a lot of experience with designing their ARM cpus since the first A chip was put into an iDevice. They licence the base designs from ARM, and are then free to customise them however they please.

Finding foundry capacity to make the chips is another matter of course, but last I heard, Apple have reserved production slots with TMSC and Samsung for both 7nm and 5nm processes, though for what each will be is another matter entirely.

You cannot really easily compare production of ARM cpus with x86 cpus either, as the latter is much much more complex than the former. ARM cpus of course being of the RISC architecture and x86 being CISC. Virtually every mobile device has some version of an ARM design in it, including the rather popular Nintendo Switch. Intel not being able to get below 14nm easily means a big deal for heat production and battery life, as the smaller the die, the (usually) lower power draw, etc. However we're veering off on a tangent here I think now.

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11th message | this message only posted: 24 Jun 2020 07:17
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from:
Hayfield
United Kingdom

 

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DerekStuart wrote: Without making any political comment one way or the other, I notice that Apple is now installing the C19 track and trace without any input to the user.

I don't even like Windows dictating to me when I need to update (which is usually for some nonsensical reason, rather than security.
This is very old news and is the same for both iPhone's and androids, and is not an app. I have a Dell desk top and iPhone & iPad, know nothing about programming but find all 3 products and both companies very good
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