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                 Settlebeck Gill
     
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1st message | this message only posted: 17 Jan 2009 12:31
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from:
Alberta,
 

 

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Hi all i have been toying with the idea of a Em layout based on the Settle & Carlisle line with a fictious branch somewhere between Dent & Ais Gill. I have been playing around with templot for sometime now & this is the first thing i am completly happy with. It is a minimum space layout with everything curving to fit into a 6ft ish sqaure. With Hornby making the skaledale east building range which look very much like the buildings at Dent it should set the scene off really well. Era wise it is 1960,s with black 5,s 4f,s , ivatts & fairburns doing the rounds on local passenger & freight.

I have uploaded the file below any feedback welcome because i am new to templot their might be something i have not done correctly.

 

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Attachment: Settlebeck Gill em curved 6ft layout to build.box (Downloaded 377 times)
 
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2nd message | this message only posted: 17 Jan 2009 19:29
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from:
Alberta,
 

 

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I have printed off the plan i have drawn up on templot & the passing loop seems to be very tight & i somehow have a feeling its not correct. When you make a crossover or a return curve the gap between the 2 tracks is that the correct distance it should be & is my settlebeck gill layout plan correct?

 

 

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3rd message | this message only posted: 17 Jan 2009 20:03
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from:
Scott Willis
 

 

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Alberta, wrote: I have printed off the plan i have drawn up on templot & the passing loop seems to be very tight & i somehow have a feeling its not correct. When you make a crossover or a return curve the gap between the 2 tracks is that the correct distance it should be & is my settlebeck gill layout plan correct?

 

 

Alberta

The centre-to-centre track spacing on your layout plan is set at 44.67mm. When working through the 'Track Plan Tutorial' it recomends that the centre-to-centre track spacing for a run-round loop to be no less than 52.67mm. As your loop is set on a fairly tight radius you may want to increase this slightly further.

Before making a simple crossover change the centre-to-centre spacing of your track:

geometry > adjacent track centre >

In the data-entry form, increase the adjacent track centres TS field by 8mm (44.67mm to 52.67mm).

Regards

Scott


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4th message | this message only posted: 18 Jan 2009 08:03
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from:
Phil O
Plymouth, United Kingdom



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Hi Alberta

I have just had a quick look at your track plan and the biggest thing I have spotted is that the outside half of your entry crossover has a radius of 23.7 ins which is a bit tight. in full size this is under 2 1/2 chains in EM you won't get much more than 0-4-0s and 4 wheel wagons round this.

Cheers Phil
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5th message | this message only posted: 18 Jan 2009 09:46
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from:
Alberta,
 

 

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Thanks for the help gents i will have another crack at it today & see if i can come up with something a bit better.
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6th message | this message only posted: 18 Jan 2009 14:05
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from:
Alberta,
 

 

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I have had a play around with this plan this afternoon & although i have worked out how to create wider spacers between the loop i still cannot work out how i can get the points to work correctly. Like you say the pointwork is very tight how can rectify this so i can get a 6 coupled loco round the pointwork without having to extend the space?. I dont have much space to build a layout but i would like to run my black 5 on the layout.
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7th message | this message only posted: 18 Jan 2009 14:29
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from:
Jim Guthrie
United Kingdom

 

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Alberta, wrote: I have had a play around with this plan this afternoon & although i have worked out how to create wider spacers between the loop i still cannot work out how i can get the points to work correctly. Like you say the pointwork is very tight how can rectify this so i can get a 6 coupled loco round the pointwork without having to extend the space?. I dont have much space to build a layout but i would like to run my black 5 on the layout.David,

You could try increasing the angle number of the turnouts in the crossover.      I've played about with your turnout and by increasing the crossing angle to 1:12,  I managed to increase the radius of the crossover leg by almost two inches.  But I suspect that you will be fighting a losing battle to get much more since the radius of your loop road is only 31 inches and as you get closer to that radius,  the length of your turnout will become very large.

You could look at putting gauge widening into the tighter radius to let your Class 5 get round.   You could probably experiment with a section of curved track with some gauge widening applied to see what your loco will cope with.  Or it might be better to build the actual turnout with gauge widening just to check that the loco is happy going through the crossing as well as handling the tight radius.

Jim.

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8th message | this message only posted: 18 Jan 2009 17:33
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from:
Alberta,
 

 

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Right i have toyed about with the size & plan & after a quick measure with the tape it seems i have more room than i thought to play with. I have extended & redesigned the plan although it isnt exactly what i want & may do a mk3 version to resemble the first plan but here is the second draft & hopefully it will accept my black 5,s. I dont understand much about points & trackwork so i dont know if this plan is any better.
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Attachment: settle beck gill mk2.box (Downloaded 303 times)
 
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9th message | this message only posted: 18 Jan 2009 17:57
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
Hi Alberta,

As Jim explained, you will struggle to get the crossover road much easier than about 27" radius with those curves. That being so, you will need to modify your stock to run on 27" radius. That being so, you may as well reduce the main line to the same minimum radius and get the huge advantage of some long transition curves. These will not only run better, the severity of the curve will be much less noticeable.

I'm a bit pushed for time, but I've thrown this together to give you the idea. The transitions run onto the traverser. The next step is to insert a long turnout into the curve such as a D12 or E14 to create the crossover.

To ensure clearance between vehicles on such a tight curve, you need to increase the track spacing. I suggest increasing the (nominal for EM) 6ft way by 1ft-6in. That means adding 6mm to the spacing, from 44.67mm to 50.67mm.



regards,

Martin.
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10th message | this message only posted: 20 Jan 2009 18:40
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from:
Alberta,
 

 

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Martin i am still new to this & i dont understand alote of the technical jargon involved in trackwork & planning but could you tell me if this looks better. I have done the mk3 model of Settlebeck & i,ve extended the size from a 6ft square to 8ft & i have stretched the points on the curves which i am hoping will look & work with 6 coupled locos.

Fingers crossed it is correct :D

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Attachment: settlebeck mk3.box (Downloaded 301 times)
 
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11th message | this message only posted: 20 Jan 2009 20:01
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from:
Alberta,
 

 

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I just realised i didnt add the 3rd siding on the layout so i have made a small version i plan to extend the sidings & make them longer so i can add a coal saithe & a cattle dock.

 

 

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Attachment: settlebeck gill mk 4.box (Downloaded 277 times)
 
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12th message | this message only posted: 21 Jan 2009 10:59
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from:
Phil O
Plymouth, United Kingdom



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Hi Alberta

I have just had a quick look and you should be ok now that you are over 30" minimum radius.

Cheers Phil:D
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13th message | this message only posted: 21 Jan 2009 16:13
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from:
Alberta,
 

 

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Can anyone signal this layout with semaphores i really want to try & make this layout as prototypical as possible using msl working signals. I am glad i have managed to get something right with templot it feels good to actually have done something correct.
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14th message | this message only posted: 21 Feb 2010 08:30
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from:
Jamie92208
 

 

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Alberta, wrote: Can anyone signal this layout with semaphores i really want to try & make this layout as prototypical as possible using msl working signals. I am glad i have managed to get something right with templot it feels good to actually have done something correct.
What era are you going for on the S & C.  It makes quite a difference for the signals.  The Midland did it all lower quadrant with the posts placed for right hand drive.  the LMS and BR then changed everything to signals placed for left hand drive and uppper quadrant.   The right/left split makes quite a bit of difference on curves as they would always be on the outside of the curve and often both up and down signals could be on the same post.   I've had to sort this out on my Long Preston layout.  I will be quite happy to try and suggest a signal layout for you if you still need one and I know the period.

 

 

Jamie Guest


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